Alaskan Yellow Cedar

[Thistle17]

Mike look at Syren web site!!!!

Joe

[kurtvd19]

I got some AYC from Chuck and I am using it on a new model and I love the stuff.  In my case the model is of a 1890 era canal boat primarily made of White Oak for which I am using Birch - dead ringer at 1/2" = 1' To White Oak.  There is also a lot of Yellow Pine used on the boat and the AYC looks perfect in place of Yellow Pine on this model.

I was very impressed with the ease of using the AYC as it cuts great on either my Preac or Bynes saws and finishes nicely.  I bought a couple of sheets from Chuck and after actually using a bit of it ordered a bunch more - it will be stocked in my shop going forward.

And as usual Chuck delivered it quickly and well packeaged.

Kurt

[Bob Cleek]

It may bear noting that Alaska yellow cedar is one of those wood species that is known by many different non-scientific names. Thus, sourcing is outside of its range may be made more difficult if you don't ask for it by the right name. First off, it's not a cedar at all, but rather a cypress. It's known as Nootka cypress, yellow cypress, Alaska cypress, Pacific Coast cedar, Nootka cedar, yellow cedar, Alaska cedar, and Alaska yellow cedar. If you are googling for it, you might try some of its other commercial names, although it is most popularly called Alaska yellow cedar.

 

Unfortunately, AYC is becoming harder to source for a variety of reasons. 1) Most of it that's commercially logged is sold locally in the Pacific Northwest, where it is still readily available. 2) It's often found in areas which are difficult (i.e. expensive) to access for logging operations. 3) It's dying off throughout much of its range due to climate change and is being considered for classification as endangered. 4) Asian demand for AYC for fine woodwork sends a lot of it off as export. 5) AYC plantation forestry has only just begun to be studied and it more of a challenge than commercial cultivation of other lumber species. 6) AYC is very slow-growing, with a lifespan of well over a thousand years.

 

It is the winter snowpack that insulates the shallow and fine root systems of AYC trees from freezing. With the snow pack becoming thinner each year, the tree roots are more exposed to cold snaps which freeze their fine root systems close to the surface and kill the trees. Photos of large stands of dead AYC would make you cry, but the good news is that the dead timber is as good for lumber as the fresh for at least 90 years, and perhaps more even. Again, AYC's growing terrain makes commercial harvesting less attractive than more accessible lumber species.

 

 

The good news is that while it is considered somewhat rare outside of its natural range, there is plenty of it available in the Pacific Northwest lumberyards. The bad news is that it will cost to ship it elsewhere. I've worked with AYC planking and decking wooden boats and I'm sad to say the offcuts went into the yard dumpster or home for the fireplace. (It's also one of the best fire woods known.) I wish I'd taken more of it for my own "lumberyard" than I did when I had the chance. 

 

 

http://patlbr.com/cedar/

 

 

 

[Seventynet]

Thanks for that explanation Bob. Very interesting. I love the wood and have quite a stock of it but really knew very little about it. 

[mtaylor]

Interesting map.  I note from a local standpoint that there's a "pocket" at the Oregon/California border that looks very close to home.   The terrain down here where much of the commercial lumbering happens (or has happened) is usually pretty mountainous so the timber folks would be used to the problems.  Maybe I should check with a friend who does firewood commercially and see if he's seen it?

[Jaager]

Mark,

While you are at it, there is another strictly "local" species to investigate =  Madrone.

It - when seasoned correctly - sounds near perfect for our use.  It is supposedly like, but superior to, Pear.

Reading on the sites of the area mills that sell it - but only to walk in trade -  it is a bear to season correctly.

Apparently some have developed  a way to effectively kiln dry it.

[michael mott]

Bob Thank you for your explanation of the AYC it clarified a question that has been on my mind for some time. The model of Skipjack that I am building which was one of the launches built for Andrew Mellon in 1909 was planked in "Yellow Cyprus" now that mystery is solved. I shall have to check for some local AYC suppliers.

 

Michael

[druxey]

Thank you for the detailed information, Bob. Certainly it is nice to carve (I've used it for half hulls), but the fine dust produced when sawing or sanding is a serious issue to control. One person I know has become allergic to yellow cedar.

[mtaylor]

11 hours ago, Jaager said:

Mark,

While you are at it, there is another strictly "local" species to investigate =  Madrone.

It - when seasoned correctly - sounds near perfect for our use.  It is supposedly like, but superior to, Pear.

Reading on the sites of the area mills that sell it - but only to walk in trade -  it is a bear to season correctly.

Apparently some have developed  a way to effectively kiln dry it.

 

I had some madrone and I agree, it's a bear to season without checking, cracking, etc.  The few pieces I managed where beautiful to work with.  

[Jaager]

Mark,

Sustainable Northwest Wood
2701 SE 14th Ave, Portland, OR 97202

 

They have 4x4 and 8x4 Madrone lumber - they anywhere near you?

 

By the way, I left a price quote inquiry for AYC with a lumber yard on your side of the continent, no joy today

maybe the holiday?

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jaager

[mtaylor]

They're at the north end of Oregon.  I'm at the south.   I'll look them up.

[bigcreekdad]

I am curious....I have a cabin in northern michigan with a lot of cedar trees. While this is not AYC, might it be a good wood to try? There are many dead, but still standing, trees I could readily harvest.

[Jaager]

From the database:

 

Workability: Northern White Cedar has good overall working characteristics, and works easily with both hand and machine tools. However, the wood is both soft and weak, giving it poor screw-holding capabilities. Northern White Cedar glues and finishes well.
Perhaps the closest thing to Balsa that the United States has domestically, Northern White Cedar is one of the very lightest and softest of commercially available woods in the country

 

In your place, I would give it a try,  You might be surprised.   As far as how AYC relates to other species that are named Cedar - the answer is probably:

not so much.

 

A relative gave me 3 logs of Aromatic Cedar,  I think I will process them into billets and see what is there.  I gravitate to hard, but I have used Tulip Poplar with success.  I am impressed with how tall, wide and straight this tree grows.

[bigcreekdad]

Thanks Jaager

Edited October 11, 2018 by bigcreekdad
spelling

[mtaylor]

Finally got around to cutting wood.   And I'm pretty darn happy with the Yellow Cedar on the laser.   Cut's clean, a bit of smoke here and there and after making some test cuts, Chuck's advice about low power and slow speed are spot on.  It just took some testing to find out low the power could go.

 

Anyway, here's the pictures of 1/32" sheet cut for planking my "large" ship's boat.  First one is the topside of the sheet, and the second shows the bottom sides with some splotches where it appears that some sap "popped". I've seen this in other woods, so wasn't surprised by it.

 

Edit:  Note to self, order more Cedar....

 

[reklein]

Its a good picture of what a spiled plank should look like.

[Tony Hunt]

How does Alaskan Yellow Cedar compare to the other legendary boat-building timber of the Pacific North-west, namely Port Orford Cedar?

 

I've never seen either In Australia but I'd love to try them.

[Bob Cleek]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:56 PM, Tony Hunt said:

How does Alaskan Yellow Cedar compare to the other legendary boat-building timber of the Pacific North-west, namely Port Orford Cedar?

 

I've never seen either In Australia but I'd love to try them.

Port Orford cedar is closely related to Alaska Yellow cedar. Both species are actually cypresses. POC is also known as Lawson's Cypress. POC is a light brown color which darkens some with age. AYC is, as one might expect, yellow. Their structural characteristics, straight grain, and good decay resistance are roughly comparable.

[BobG]

5 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

Port Orford cedar is closely related to Alaska Yellow cedar. Both species are actually cypresses. POC is also known as Lawson's Cypress. POC is a light brown color which darkens some with age. AYC is, as one might expect, yellow. Their structural characteristics, straight grain, and good decay resistance are roughly comparable.

Would Port Orford cedar be a good choice for model ship building also? Is it readily available?

 

Bob

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, BobG said:

Would Port Orford cedar be a good choice for model ship building also? Is it readily available?

 

Bob

Port Orford cedar is readily available, but probably a special order item outside of the Pacific Coast. As for model building, I'm sure it's entirely suitable, save for appearance. POC's rings are more pronounced than AYC's and it wouldn't be the best choice if one was intending to finish the model bright. The POC would appear out of scale. Best to go with AYC selected to have very light rings. If the model were to be painted, of course, I don't think there's a lot of difference, really. POC can tend to have a coarser grain than AYC, but a lot depends on particular piece of wood.

[Chuck]

Its not really good at all.  The grain is far too pronounced.  I have tried.

[BrianChadwick]

Hi Carved Yellow Cedar a few times.  Sanded my last carving to 800g. and started to finish with 60/40 turpentine / tung oil, making stronger each coat.  ended with 100% tung oil.  

[Chuck]

Just a quick photo of work that has been sitting in a dark corner for many years.  this is Alaskan yellow cedar on my cross section after mellowing and finding its aged color and tone.  It has been sitting on dark shelf for almost four years. No dents….just dusty but it has taken on a warm amber color after using only wipe on poly.  Thought I would post as I was pleasantly surprised.  
 

 

compare to the color and tone when I was building it four years ago.

 

 

 

 

[glbarlow]

My Alaskan Yellow Cedar built Cheerful is already starting to "mellow" like Chuck's Photo - It catches a little sunset light from a window across the room and I just marvel at how it appears - I love the stuff and will be building Winchelsea from more of it...a lot more...

[Dowmer]

Here’s what mine looks like after 20 years. It’s been out of the sunlight in a dark closet and I used a light wipe of tung oil. The Alaskan Cedar really has a warm golden glow to it. Very pleased. Some day I’ll finish this project. Watching Chuck’s fine Winchelsea and Cheerful kits and tutorials are motivating me to start again. 
 

 

[Nirvana]

I saw this topic and found it interesting, specially with the AYC "corridor" where I live.

So I did a search and found so many mills nearby providing this amazing wood.

Yes, I did buy some sheets from Chuck and love the quality and hue of color.