Ships vs Boats

[Mike from Aus]

Just a question....I am about to start a model 1950s speedboat.....clearly not a ship. Are boat builds welcome on this forum?   Thank you.

[Blue Ensign]

Boats are very welcome, at least my last several builds  haven't been thrown off the site, all much smaller than ships.😃

 

B.E.

[ccoyle]

Yes! Boats are welcome. If you look through the build logs, you will see many examples of smallcraft.

[CDR_Ret]

Just don't call a ship a boat, unless it's a submarine!

 

I don't know how many articles I read over the past several weeks about the "boat" stuck in the Suez Canal! 🤨

[BobG]

10 minutes ago, CDR_Ret said:

Just don't call a ship a boat, unless it's a submarine!

When I think of a ship I always think of a large vessel. What's the dividing line between a ship and a boat by definition?

[Blue Ensign]

The one I heard is that you can put a boat on a ship, but not a ship on a boat.

 

B.E.

[GuntherMT]

10 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

The one I heard is that you can put a boat on a ship, but not a ship on a boat.

 

B.E.

 

So modern frigates are boats!

 

[Blue Ensign]

Always an exception to prove a rule, we are talking generalities here.

 

B.E.

[kurtvd19]

There are no "ships" on the Great Lakes.  1,000 ft ore carriers are still boats.

And of course all the submarines that were mfg in Manitowoc, WI were boats.

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, BobG said:

When I think of a ship I always think of a large vessel. What's the dividing line between a ship and a boat by definition?

I read somewhere that the distinction between the two is how they behave during sharp turns. When turning, boats lean inwards and ships lean outwards.

 

 

[DBorgens]

Boats are certainly welcome. Mine hasn’t been kicked out yet.

 

Dave B

[Mike from Aus]

Thank you all......just trying to do the right thing.....I haven’t done a build log you but I will do so this time.

[mtaylor]

10 hours ago, Mike from Aus said:

Just a question....I am about to start a model 1950s speedboat.....clearly not a ship. Are boat builds welcome on this forum?   Thank you.

 As said.... yes.  When you do the log, use the naming guidelines, one of which is put the keyword "small" in the title.

[gak1965]

8 hours ago, GuntherMT said:

 

So modern frigates are boats!

 

 

Heck, that's a DDG, twice the displacement of our most recent class of frigates.

[Keith S]

Well, when a ship behaves well in a seaway, sailors say she's a "good seaboat". 

 

I submit the two things are largely synonymous, with the distinction being  merely a matter of convention. Of course, an aeroplane or even a spacecraft can be a "ship", and a "liner", but never a "boat", unless the aeroplane in question has a hull: then it's a flying boat, but only if it has one hull, never two. And a helicopter can never be a "flying boat", even if it has a boat hull, like a Sikorski Sea-King. But it can still be a "ship" or even a "liner" if it flies scheduled routes. Gunboats are "boats", even the biggest kind, with commissioned officers on a bridge, and a wardroom and accommodations and a galley and the whole nine yards.  Again, an aeroplane or helicopter can be a "gun ship" but never a "gun boat"; it's only the boat one that can be called a "boat"... but only if it's not a FLYING boat. Then it's a "Gun ship". 

 

I suppose if you took the guns off a large gun boat, it would be a small ship. I mean, what else would you call it? 

 

Of course, you can call a small steam-powered ship a "steamboat", but if you change the steam engine for a diesel, then it's a "ship", not usually a "diesel boat", unless it's a submarine or a tug. Or one of those colossal ships that sail in the Great Lakes: those are obviously "boats" whether they're steam or diesel or whatever. As for seagoing ones, you can have "steam ships" but if they're diesel powered they are suddenly called a "motor vessel" even though they all have engines, not motors. Which brings me to the subject of the difference between engines and motors....

 

[CDR_Ret]

Keith, are you a lawyer by any chance?

[Captain Slog]

12 hours ago, WalrusGuy said:

I read somewhere that the distinction between the two is how they behave during sharp turns. When turning, boats lean inwards and ships lean outwards.

 

 

This; by coincidence watched a YouTube video the other day on a ship channel which went into this in detail.

[Dr PR]

I have to add my two cents here!

 

My first "ship" was a 112 foot long inshore mine sweeper (MSI). Three officers and 19 enlisted. I was Engineering Officer, Supply Officer, George and 25 other official duties.

 

I was told, when first going aboard, that ships in the US Navy were 150 feet or longer, and anything smaller was a boat. However, we had a letter from the Secretary of the Navy authorizing us to call the vessel USS Cape, United States Ship. So the Cape and her sister the Cove (MSI 1) were the smallest ships in the Navy.

 

The Cove was probably a bit shorter than the Cape. The ships had four GMC 6-71 diesel engines ganged together to drive one 4 foot diameter bronze propeller and a 6" diameter prop shaft. The prop and shaft weighed more than the engines. If we tried to shift into reverse while the shaft was turning the momentum of the prop and shaft plus the force of the prop "windmilling" would just crank the engines over backwards, and they were happy to run that way!

 

To reverse the prop we had to pull on a brake lever that tightened a brake shoe against the shaft and hold on until the shaft stopped turning. Then we could shift the transmission into reverse, rev up the engines, let out the clutch and start the shaft/propeller turning again. Ditto when going from reverse to forward again.

 

All this messing around took several minutes and made close maneuvering tricky. Why am I telling this? One time when coming in to the pier the Cove timed the approach wrong and while trying to reverse engines to slow down it rammed the stern of a destroyer in the berth ahead. It cut a several inch deep "V" shaped notch in the destroyer's stern. The destroyer presented the Cove with a new name plate for the "USS Can Opener."

 

So the Cove was probably the shorter of the two. And there were only two. They were worthless.

 

PS: One of these days I may build a model of the Cape. A wooden model of a wooden ship.

[Louie da fly]

5 hours ago, Keith S said:

Well, when a ship behaves well in a seaway, sailors say she's a "good seaboat". 

 

I submit the two things are largely synonymous, with the distinction being  merely a matter of convention. Of course, an aeroplane or even a spacecraft can be a "ship", and a "liner", but never a "boat", unless the aeroplane in question has a hull: then it's a flying boat, but only if it has one hull, never two. And a helicopter can never be a "flying boat", even if it has a boat hull, like a Sikorski Sea-King. But it can still be a "ship" or even a "liner" if it flies scheduled routes. Gunboats are "boats", even the biggest kind, with commissioned officers on a bridge, and a wardroom and accommodations and a galley and the whole nine yards.  Again, an aeroplane or helicopter can be a "gun ship" but never a "gun boat"; it's only the boat one that can be called a "boat"... but only if it's not a FLYING boat. Then it's a "Gun ship". 

 

I suppose if you took the guns off a large gun boat, it would be a small ship. I mean, what else would you call it? 

 

Of course, you can call a small steam-powered ship a "steamboat", but if you change the steam engine for a diesel, then it's a "ship", not usually a "diesel boat", unless it's a submarine or a tug. Or one of those colossal ships that sail in the Great Lakes: those are obviously "boats" whether they're steam or diesel or whatever. As for seagoing ones, you can have "steam ships" but if they're diesel powered they are suddenly called a "motor vessel" even though they all have engines, not motors. Which brings me to the subject of the difference between engines and motors....

 

 

And the "Good Ship Lollipop" was an aircraft - a DC2, if I remember correctly . . .

 

Steven

[mtaylor]

15 hours ago, CDR_Ret said:

Keith, are you a lawyer by any chance?

A sea lawyer maybe????   LOL.

[Keith S]

Ha ha,  yeah. Definitely a "sea lawyer". 😁

[flyer]

Keith, here is a question for the expert:

When Sully made his virtuoso landing on the Hudson, did he convert his aircraft into an airboat or an airship?

 

😉

Peter

 

[Keith S]

But wait! There's more! An airboat doesn't go in the air. An airship does. There are no rules!

 

[Moab]

Here’s my two cents. My skipper during most of my first tour was a four striper from the Academy. A great CO. HE defined the difference between the two as follows: Any vessel that can be carried on a ship is a boat. I’ve given up discussing this with individuals since there seems to be about 100 different definitions. I have no idea which is correct...Moab

[Keith S]

3 hours ago, Moab said:

Here’s my two cents. My skipper during most of my first tour was a four striper from the Academy. A great CO. HE defined the difference between the two as follows: Any vessel that can be carried on a ship is a boat. I’ve given up discussing this with individuals since there seems to be about 100 different definitions. I have no idea which is correct...Moab

 

I'm going to go with your definition. It doesn't make perfect sense, but it makes more sense than anything else.

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

These days it might be closer to the truth to say a boat can be transported by road while a ship can't.

[Keith S]

Next debate: Is a Jeep a big car, or a small truck?

[bruce d]

8 hours ago, Keith S said:

Next debate: Is a Jeep a big car, or a small truck?

It is a General Purpose vehicle = Jeep 😉

[lmagna]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:36 PM, Dr PR said:

One of these days I may build a model of the Cape. A wooden model of a wooden ship.

Handsome little VESSEL, (That's what Nav Source Online calls them ). Many years ago I helped a friend build a steam launch using a surplus single cylinder double acting vertical steam engine. (I think it was originally an auxiliary engine on a Liberty ship or some such). At any rate, you would have to do much the same thing when starting or reversing the engine. You would have to bring the shaft to a complete stop, move the flywheel with your foot  to slightly before or after TDC or BDC depending on the direction you wanted to start up in, and open the steam again. It was a little cumbersome at first and we had the engine start up in the wrong direction a few times,  but eventually it got to be like double clutching in a car, pretty much second nature. It wasn't as big of an issue with a 30' BOAT as it was on your 112' ship but it could be exciting none the less.

 

So is a floating can opener a ship? Or a boat?