Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[mobbsie]

Thanks Dan, you learn something new everyday.

 

That's another way of recognising a French Vessel, thanks for the illustrations as well.

 

Back to you Mark.

 

mobbsie

[JohnE]

Hi Mark.

 

Wales and things are a hot button with many modelers. The French did it way different from the British (and Americans). I know what the paradigm was from my research into French Revolutionary and Empire period designs, but wanted to see if earlier generation ships followed the same system. Hermione (1770) does. I have pictures and a detailed explanation that I will put up on the Hermione in Castine thread.

 

Licorne was the name ship of a class of four ships designed in 1754 by Jean Geoffroy. But the construction treatises relevant to 1740/1750 (Duhamel, Ollivier, Vial de Clairbois) show the same technique, so it may be presumed that the Hermione detail will equally apply, in many instances, to ships designed/constructed 20 years earlier.

 

Caveat: construction techniques, scantlings, etc, apply to National warships of the frigate class. Liners and Corvettes, and as such, will be different in their own particular way from other sized vessels

 

Ciao. John.

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the "likes" and comments.

 

Druxey.. I'll try. 

 

Dan... thanks for explaining the anchor stowage planking.  You beat me to it. 

 

Hi John,

I have the pictures from Boudroit's History of the French Frigate 1650-1850    As built, she had wales similar to the English but her decorations including quarter galleries were typical for the period.  See pictures.

 

After a rebuild/Great Repair or whatever the French called it, she resembles the Belle Poule and it also appears the L'Hermoine is similar (same period) in galleries, planking but Licorne, has the full Arms of France for the stern decoration due to not having the chase ports on the quarterdeck level.   The wales were converted to as shown and also as you explain.  It's been a bit confusing at times especially since Hahn thought it was Le Venus that should be used.  Le Venus  was an 18-pdr of a later period and design. 

 

One big surprise was they went from 5 stern windows (4 real and 1 deadlight) to 7 windows (4 real and 3 deadlights).  Also, the original design had lids on the ports.  After the rebuild.. no lids.

 

One thing I did discover from Boudroit's works is that the 8-pdr and 12-pdr frigates were very similar and the biggest difference as far as visual is that on a 8-pdr, the quarter deck stops on the aft side of the main mast.  On the 12-pdr, the quarterdeck continues to the fore side of the mainmast.  

 

The more I get into this build, the wilder some things seem to get. 

 

Edit.. accidentally hit "post" while writing this.

Edited July 22, 2015 by mtaylor

[cog]

Mark,

 

Soon you are ready to write your own dissertation on the subject!!! Keep the information flowing ...

[kpnuts]

Wow just seen this what a mamoth task, not something I would ever attempt, that is truly something else.BRAVO .

[popeye the sailor]

just catching up Mark..........she coming along  super! 

[Landlubber Mike]

Beautiful decorations Mark.  I hope you plan to add them to your Licorne!  The French ships are really gorgeous.

 

The Corel Unicorn figurehead, while not exactly similar to the Licorne figurehead, should be a good model I would think.

[JohnE]

Mark,

 

She sure is looking good. Welcome to the wild, wonderful, whacky, world of French ship construction  Looks like you have it totally under control.

 

[ed] I certainly agree la Vénus is a completely different animal. Licorne was the only ship of this type designed by Geffroy (père) so she could be considered a one-off with detail differences from the standard. Since you have the book, I'm sure you know that a lot of the fiddly bits are closer in similarity to la Renommée. You are doing a wonderful job, and helping the rest of us with your take on the "speed bumps". They are invaluable.

 

Just remember, French ships are sensitive creatures and must be spoken to occasionally in French. So when/if you hit a bump in the road, just shout "Zut alors! Zut alors! Zut alors!"

 

John

Edited July 22, 2015 by JohnE

[shipmodel]

John - 

 

You are obviously more restrained than I am.  My usual exclamation is "Merde!!"

 

Dan

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Carl,

A dissertation...??  hmm...  I'm not sure I can add anything to general knowledge other than what's out there already.

 

John,

Like Dan, John, my favorite one to use is "Merde"...   :D  

 

Edit:  G. Delacroix recommended that I use Belle Poule for the fiddly bits and rigging as they were contemporaries.  Le Renommee  was earlier.  If I were doing "as built", then that would be the one to use.

 

Mike,

Those pics are of her "as built".  I'm doing "as captured".  She was, with minor modifications, take into the British Navy as HMS Licorne. The name wasn't changed as there was already an HMS Unicorn.    Here's some PDF's of how I'm building her.   These are from the Hahn plans which as far as decorations go are right off the NMM plans.

 

The figurehead is very close to the Unicorn figurehead.   Might even be the same one.. I'm not sure as there was/is some confusion on the plans between HMS Unicorn and HMS Licorne.

 

bow.pdfstern.pdfstern-quarter.pdf

Edited July 22, 2015 by mtaylor

[Kevin]

Mark I have missed you work so much , i cried for you (well not actually cried) when you abandoned the last one

[shipmodel]

Mark - 

 

Those PDFs were excellent and the decorations will make this an outstanding model.

 

Dan

[Landlubber Mike]

Interesting, it does look very similar to the Unicorn of the Lyme class.  Beautiful ship!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Mark,

 

2 comparisons with 64 and 74 guns.

 

-Observe the similutude between the pilaster, on yours and on the 74.

 

-Roughly, planking has 2 thickness.

 

For the 64 guns, 1729, in orange is the thickess and  in purple is thinner.

I would guess that 40 years later, although planking still has 2 thickness, they simplyfied the process.

 

For the 74 ,  in black, for the wales only, planking is thicker and in yellow, thinner.

[NenadM]

I had no idea how complex is this mofel. Great work Mark, no matter you are quietly burning on a light fire. Fire always produce something

[mtaylor]

Thanks again for following, liking, and commenting.

 

Nenad... the fire is burning and the spice is flowing.   

 

Gaetan,

 

I'm also looking at Belle Poule along with the 8-pdr frigates of the period.  I'm not convinced that pilasters shown on Hahn's drawing are 100% correct and the NMM plans are hard to make out.  Later in the period, they did get "simpler".  I'm still digging into the research as I go. 

 

I do have the two thicknesses of planking.  I'll try to get a better picture of it.   I'm surprised that the 74 has more of an English style wale and planking, though.

[mtaylor]

Here's the close up pic I promised....  I'm not done sanding or "caulking"/crack filling yet and there's sawdust all over...   but you should be able to see how the ebony flows and fills the area between fore end of the channel (the open spot) and the main wale and how the main wale planking is all blended together. The wide planks (wale planks) are all about 1 foot wide, actually a bit more since the French foot was bigger than the English foot.  The rest of the planking is approximately 9 inches wide, and again, it's slightly larger than the comparible English planking.

 

 

[GLakie]

Nice work on the planking Mark!  Pretty interesting. Didn't know about the French foot being larger, so after looking it up, I found that they used what they were calling the "King's foot" type of measurement system for over a thousand years, even though it did vary back and forth somewhat over the years. For a long time, including the 18th century, 1 foot was about 12.86 inches.  Learn something every day.     Now I need to ask if there's a charge for all this knowledge I'm picking up here! All I have right now is just a few Peso's. 

 

Cheers 

[JohnE]

Really nice Mark. I like how you set things up to be inserted later. Smart.

GLakie,

Yep, the pied du roi was 1.066 times the English equivalent. There were 12 pouces (inches) per pied, and 12 linges per pouce. Nothing below that, so the 1/24ths or 1/32nds recorded by the English dockyards are simply artifacts of the difference in measurement systems. And then you get some dockyards using metric and the equivalence matrix gets a bit 'largeur' if you know what I mean.  Woof !

 

Just a couple centimes.

 

John

Edited July 26, 2015 by JohnE

[mtaylor]

Still hammering away...    Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Here's the latest pics.  Starboard side wide wale planking is complete.  Needs final sanding and bit more caulking (  ) of some planks that I didn't quite get fitted right.  Relatively minor fix, in my opinion.  the splotchiness is from wiping it down with water to raise the grain for the final sanding.  An interesting effect is that not all Swiss Pear is the same color.. some is darker than the others.   Interesting.

 

Next comes the narrow planks.  per measurements, I need 28 strakes.  Seven strakes at the stern to the deadwood so I need to take those into account as they are 9" planks on the counter to the deadwood. After that, they can be wider as they run to the garboard.  The bow will need serious tapering and I'm starting to mark everything out.

 

Any tips, oops, or advice appreciated.

 

 

[GLakie]

Lookin' good Mark! 

 

Cheers 

[druxey]

Color variation in wood will even out nicely with time and exposure to light and air.

[Omega1234]

Very nice Mark!  

[dgbot]

Sorry I am coming in late Mark but your stern planking is the cats meow. Making those severe bends must have been rough.

David B

[cog]

Mark,

 

You 'nailed' those bends in the stern planking. 'Lovely job my boy' ;-) You have some serious adzing, and shaving to do ... I'll sit back, relax, and enjoy the master at work ..!

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the "likes" and the comments.

 

 

Color variation in wood will even out nicely with time and exposure to light and air.

 

That's re-assuring, Druxey.  I didn't know that.

 

Sorry I am coming in late Mark but your stern planking is the cats meow. Making those severe bends must have been rough.
David B

 

Not as hard as the first time, David.  With advice, they're not that bad once I got my mind wrapped around it.

 

 

Mark,

 

You 'nailed' those bends in the stern planking. 'Lovely job my boy' ;-) You have some serious adzing, and shaving to do ... I'll sit back, relax, and enjoy the master at work ..!

 

Indeed, Carl.. lots more adzing and shaving.  I don't want to get too far ahead on getting this area as it should be since it needs to blend with the next round of planking.

[Jim Lad]

Delightful job, Mark!

 

John

[mobbsie]

I see Mark you really are getting the hang of this.

 

I'm the last person to advise on planking, sorry I cant help you mate.

 

She looking every part the lady and she'll be better when she's off her belly and sitting on her keel.

 

I personally like the varying colour in the wood, like people not all trees are the same which is the way it should be.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[captainbob]

Still hammering away...    

 

 

Looking good.  Wish my hammer worked like yours.

 

Bob

Edited July 29, 2015 by Cap'n'Bob

[wyz]

Mark   It looks like all that work redoing the planking astern has worked out nicely.  You got some good advice from a number of people and the result is MUCH BETTER looking.  You should be proud of what you did.  Well done friend!