Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Chuck]

Yes there is a curve.  Its actually really noticeable in reality.  You will see that after adding the stern frames.

[Rustyj]

Thanks Chuck, I started dry fitting last night and notice the curve.

Looking at the picture and the optical illusion had me scratching my head.

Won't be the last time either.  

[ASAT]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:54 AM, sfotinos said:

How do you keep your model so clean?  Do you wear gloves?

 

Shawn

I asked him that clear back during Syren and Confederacy - I think he must be OCD about hand washing😀 I really think the key is just being meticulous and deliberate with every aspect of the build and yes, keeping everything clean.... work area, model, tools.... and your hands!

[Beckmann]

I think applying some primer from time to time  helps to keep the surface free of  dirt.

[ASAT]

Primer? Could you explain better please?   Thanks....

[Rustyj]

2 minutes ago, ASAT said:

Primer?

 

I believe he's referring to applying a coat of wipe on poly or using a sanding sealer.

[Beckmann]

I dont know the exact english word. It is very  dilute varnish. You usually apply it after sanding, before you start to paint the surface.   It closes the pores of the wood if you know what I mean.

[Chuck]

I am certainly no clean freak.  But seriously it gets plenty dirty.  Then I clean it up by sanding it lightly with some 320 grit sandpaper.  Then I apply some wipe on poly.   I am not really sure that I do much different then everyone else.  I think the better question to ask is why some hulls appear to get so dirty.  

 

Perfect timing though guys as I am about to upload chapter two in the downloads area.   With this out of the way I might get a start on building the stern and quarter galleries.

[ASAT]

I was just jokin, Chuck.... I know mine get dirty cause I use cyano for planking and a graphite pencil for caulking.... when they both get on your fingers it’s a mess.... but I do the same as you Chuck..... 320 and WOP when I am done for the sitting.....

Edited November 12, 2019 by ASAT

[svein erik]

26 minutes ago, ASAT said:

I was just jokin, Chuck.... I know mine get dirty cause I use cyano for planking and a graphite pencil for caulking.... when they both get on your fingers it’s a mess.... but I do the same as you Chuck..... 320 and WOP when I am done for the sitting.....

hi, i have discover that using graphite pensel for caulking on basswood its going to be dirty, but when i used on the yellow sedar 

it dossent stick on the wood as basswood! The wood makes a different!

 

svein erik

[Chuck]

Today I started working on the transom and quarter gallery construction.  We are just going to build the foundations here.  

 

To begin, I took the 3/64" thick transom and clamped it into position.....

 

Now this laser cut piece was cut a bit taller than needed.  This was done on purpose because there will no doubt be some variations.  It depends on where you placed those stern frame fillers.  The best way to judge the placement of the transom is not the outboard side.  You must examine the inboard side carefully.

 

Note the lips around each stern window opening.  These will in all likelihood not be very consistent.  Thats OK.  That is why I designed it this way.  You will be able to push the windows into position and move them a bit so they look good from outboard.  Basically you will center them in the space.  That lip allows you to do that.   This is what you should be adjusting placement for.  When you have a good orientation where the lips around each stern window are good (examine the plans as this is shown) you will see how the transom is too high.   

 

But its not a problem because you can mark the true height with a pencil as I have done and sand the top of transom to fit your model before gluing it into position.  I hope that makes sense.  The top of the transom should be flush with your stern filler pieces.  Runn a pencil along the tops of your filler pieces while its clamped in the final position.   

 

Another thing to keep in mind is the quarter gallery window.  There will also be a lip around that.  Make sure it is consistent on the port and starboard sides.  You dont want one side bigger than the other after you glue it on.  Dont shift it more to one side than the other.

 

I like to glue the transom on first.  Many might find it easier to plank the upper counter first.  But because all the window openings are crucial, I thought it best to glue the transom in position first after determining the placement.  This will of course leave a nice consistent measurement for your upper counter as shown in that top photo.  Once the transom is glued on you can plank the upper counter.

 

I uses 3 strips rather than laser cut these.  Again this width will no doubt vary from model to model.....just a wee bit.  I used 7/32" x 3/64" strips to plank the upper counter.  You will need to bevel the edges against the transom and lower counter.  Also pre-bend these because although it is hard to see in the photos, there is a substantial curve to these.  Make sure you make these extra long so they extend a bit more beyond the side of the transom.  You can see that in the picture above.

 

Then, I took these two 3/32" thick laser cut pieces....

 

These are glued to the forward side of the transom where the quarter galleries are.  But its not that simple.  Once again they are slightly over-sized.  You must first bevel the side that fits against the hull planking.  It will need some careful beveling.  You also need to take enough material from that side so it also leaves a consistent lip around the window.  This is so we can push those window frames in the opening.  This will be tricky!!!  Try and sand enough away to give you a decent lip on both sides of this window opening.  Then sand the outsides to match the shape of your transom.  

 

Eventually the upper counter will be shaped like I show it above.  See the pencil line that shows the typical shape.  But before we do that, we need to double up the planking thickness on the upper counter (under the 3/32" piece we just added).  I used some scrap 1/16" thick strips.  It doesnt have to be fancy, this will all be covered up later.  But we need to make it thicker.

 

Then you can sand the sides of the upper counter to shape...

 

The sides have been sanded in the photo above.  Notice the added thickness.  The side of the counter was sanded flush with the transom on the top....but it angles narrower to give you the right shape along the bottom.

 

How will you know how wide to make the bottom of the counter?  It should be 7/16" away from the hull.  Measure before you sand!!! And draw a line from top to bottom so you have a reference line to follow when sanding the edge to shape.

 

Thats it for the transom for now.  Next I will start framing the quarter galleries.  Also forgot to mention that the two small round ports on the the top of the stern filler pieces, they can be enlarged to the size as laser cut in the transom.  I have yet to do this but maybe I will do it tomorrow.  

 

Any questions???

 

 

Oh and notice the gentle curve on the transom...it is quite evident now.  Things will be a bit messy while we build out the transom and quarter galleries.  But once everything is painted and cleaned up it will look lovely.

 

[Edwardkenway]

Hi Chuck, Winnie is looking great!!

You were right about this thread helping me out with the Triton build as I would have been a bit stumped as to how to make the quarter galleries. 

From this you have probably gathered that I'm going to continue with Triton as I've already got a decent way into the build, but I seriously think Winnie will be a definite future project. 

Thanks for all the very useful posts.

Cheers 👍😀

That is after Chris's Speedy of course

Edited November 16, 2019 by Edwardkenway

[svein erik]

thats looking grait.... am also inn for the winni 

i dont know when , so chuck have some parts stasj away 😉

 

svein-erik

[druxey]

Looks like you've anticipated every difficulty, Chuck!

[Tim Murphy]

Chuck, the build is looking great. 
Chapter two of Winchelsea is a great read. I really don’t understand how you do it?

Do this type of model building and run your Company.

An off the wall question? Were did you get the long neck clamps that you use? I have tried to find 

them, but no luck! Help please!

 Tim  

[Chuck]

I actually git them at lowes or home depot.   But only online.  They were very cheep.  I bought about a dozen.

[RichardG]

I got mine from Menards (in the store!). 

 

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/clamps-vises/wolfcraft-reg-micro-needle-nose-clamp/3431404/p-1444439537678-c-9135.htm

[Tim Murphy]

Richard G. and Chuck, thanks for the held! 

I was able to order the clamps from Menards

Tim

[knightyo]

Superb instructions, Chuck.  That last post was a lot of fun to read/watch.

 

Alan

[Chuck]

Today I cut a test set of laser cut windows for the stern.  They fit perfectly.   If you remember on my smaller version, I used laserboard for these.  But on this 1/4" scale Winnie, I was able to cut them from .025 boxwood.  They are still very fragile but they work great.  Now the inside edges do have laser char on them as you might expect.  DO NOT try and sand this stuff off.  The frames are too fragile for that.  If you want to lighten them up on the edges use some weathering powder instead.  But be careful.  Anyway, these wont be used just yet but I am always making parts before I need them.  Thought I would show you guys what it looks like.  I tried to make sure they didnt look too heavy while still being not so fragile.  The appearance of scale is so important.  All of this laser cut stuff will be available in the chapter three installment.

 

Chuck

 

[Wacom]

Superb 

[Jim Rogers]

Perfect!

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Now the inside edges do have laser char on them as you might expect.  DO NOT try and sand this stuff off. 

Just curious.. 

They appear dark all around, not just the inside edges,  and unlike some of your other thin boxwood pieces. like the lantern.   Is that just the lighting?

 

The dark color provides contrast that I find attractive..

Edited November 18, 2019 by Gregory

[MEDDO]

Dang Chuck my next is going to be Cheerful but you are making this project look so attractive.  

[Chuck]

Thanks guys.  Yes its just the lighting because of the angle of the transom.  The light is directly above so its in shadow.

 

it is good to be working on something other than planking.  😀

[dvm27]

It is quite difficult do have properly sized mutins as well as consistent pane symmetry across the transom. Not to mention all those changing bevels over the transom. My hat's off to you, Sir!

[Chuck]

Thanks Greg, Yes indeed there are quite a few angles.   So far so good though.

 

Just a small update, but its an important one.  The image below shows the transom and quarter gallery filler.  Notice the top edge of the transom.  You can see all of the layers and this is not very desirable since this area outboard will be left bright and visible.  It looks ugly.   To clean this up, we need to add a strip along the top edge.  This will have a cleaner finished look.  But its full of curves and also has the stern frames protruding through it.  This could make it tricky to achieve.   

 

But I wouldnt try doing this in one piece using a continuous strip that needs to be notched out around the stern frames.  That would be nuts considering the compound curves.

 

So I decided instead to add the cap of the transom in sections which proved to be much easier and really not that difficult at all.  The cap is very thin.  In fact the thinner the better.  I milled a 1/64" thick strip that was 3/16" wide.   Such a thin strip of any wood is very flexible. But Cedar in particular is crazy flexible and very strong.   To demonstrate this, I literally milled a strip on my Byrnes saw and then tied it into a knot.  I didnt apply any heat or water.  The photo below shows the strip after I took it directly off the saw and tied it.

 

 

Of course I cut a new strip!!!!  Then I cut it into segments as shown below to finish the top of the transom so it wouldnt look so ugly.  The fancy molding on the transom will cover the seam outboard and the top surface will look nice and clean.  You can see I have a few sections left to finish it up.

You can see in this image below that no layers can be seen any more.  You shouldnt do the side of the transom....dont put a strip there.  Only the top edge gets it.  The sides will be completely covered with the figure that will eventually be placed there.  You wont see those layers.

 

I also cut a new set of windows using yellow cedar rather than boxwood.  These actually work better in my opinion.  Th e color is better and they are no more fragile than the boxwood versions.  So I am going to go with Cedar.  The laser char is much lighter as well because Boxwood burns a whole lot more!!!  So its not as noticeable.  I coated the thin cap on the right side with some wipe on poly so you could see it better.  I wanted to show you how thin it is.  When you mill the strip....keep it thin.   It makes it a lot easier to work with.

 

[CaptMorgan]

Fabulous stuff Chuck.  Looks fantastic...   

I'm not sure about me milling a 1/64" strip. Right now I'm not sure I can make a decent 1/8" strip.  However I think I will be getting a lot of practice in the future......

Always looking forward to your updates....

Steve

[Chuck]

You only need one 1/64 strip.  Maybe i will just include it in the chapter 3 package.

 

just dont tie it in a knot first.  

[Chuck]

Moving right along...

 

I am about to start framing out the quarter galleries.  But before we do that, we must take care of those stern windows on the transom.  I am only referring to the one in the quarter gallery that is actually a "dummy" window.  This window was actually boarded up in the qgalleries.  I am not even sure if it had an actual piece of glass in it.  Needless to say I added the laser cut acetate window pane. This is something that just makes the stern look more consistent in my opinion.  But you can leave it out if you prefer.

 

So there are three layers...

 

First the laser cut window (light).

Then the acetate pane

lastly the laser cut 1/16" insert.

 

The aft side of this insert should be painted a dark gray.  Try and avoid a pitch black.  See below.

 

 

The three layers are inserted from the forward side.  You dont have to glue the window unless you need to move it around for the best fit.  Check it from the outboard side to be sure.  Dont put any glue on the acetate.  Just push it against the window and let it site there.  What you want to do is just apply a little glue to the edges of the insert and add that last.  It will hold in your window.  Then sand the surface so the forward side of the qgallery is all flush and neat.

 

With this all done, we can start constructing the quarter galleries.  This is some real tricky business.  There are so many angles to contend with.  You must establish the correct slope of the qgalleries.  This is the hardest part.  We will be constructing the "stool" of the gallery first.  This is the extension of the upper counter as it wraps around to form the base of the qgallery.

 

But you just can begin by grabbing the laser cut framing and and gluing it onto the model.  The angle of the stool is crucial to every additional laser cut part for these galleries.  If the angle is off, none of the windows will fit etc.   So measure twice and then measure again.

 

To assist with this, I have created some paper templates for you.  This is nothing new.  Many of you have used this technique before.....see below.

 

BUT....I have seen many of you make a crucial error when using them.  You dont want to place these against the hull planking.  This will result in your quarter gallery having the wrong angle and NOT following the run along the hull you want.  Instead, you need to cut the template out carefully and tape it to the outside edge of the transom.  Get this against the transom neatly.  In fact you will notice that is is just a hair lower than the bottom of the transom.  This is because if you follow the bottom edge of the template aft, it will intersect with the aft edge of the transom.   This is important and I hope that makes sense.

 

The 1/8" band on the bottom of this template represents the top of the stool framing.  You need to mark the forward edge of the template with a sharp pencil....the whole edge.....

 

Also mark the aft side which will reference the top of the qgallery along the transom edge.  The top left of the template.   

 

When you pull the template off, it will look like this below.

 

Well actually you will just have the forward pencil line.   Then you need to add another about 3/64" aft of it.  This represents the shell thickness of the qgallery.   Also note how I defined the 1/8" frame at the bottom.   This will be the first qgallery timber we add to the model.   That will be shown in my next post.....

 

This is some complex stuff with all of these angles, so please feel free to ask me any questions. ....