For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale

[Jerry Sturdivant]

New member here and just trying to figure out how to get around this site. I see other newbies have entered here, so I will too.

 

I’m Jerry Sturdivant, 81. Been a U.S. Navy sailor (South China Sea in the late 50’s), sailed with the Sea Scouts in the San Francisco bay, and three times missed out on crewing on a trans-Pacific sail. Was a crew member on a 90’ Baltic gaff-rigged schooner out of Hood River, Oregon, where we crossed the Columbia River Bar (then had the Coast Guard rescue us). I’ve rebuilt a small craft for fishing, and I’ve built a 12-foot canoe with redwood strips from a set of plans; all years ago. I’ve river rafted the Grand Canyon and the back waters of Oregon. Retired to Las Vegas, bought an 18’ sailboat, but soon gave it up because Lake Mead wind is either 1 knot or 50.

 

My son (50-years old) has build a number of models now has me hooked. So far, I’ve build a Model Shipways 18^th century longboat 1:48 and just finished a Corel Sloup Coquillier (I saw photos elsewhere on this site), but couldn’t find an answer to a problem. And then I found this site.

 

I can’t figure out why the mainsail has only three rings and positioned so far up the mast. And why there’s no downhaul for the boom. So I’ll look around this site for where to post this question, and possibly upload my pictures.

 

I’ve just ordered a Model Shipways Glad Tidings Pinky Schooner and looking forward to it’s arrival.

[VTHokiEE]

51 minutes ago, Jerry Sturdivant said:

can’t figure out why the mainsail has only three rings and positioned so far up the mast. And why there’s no downhaul for the boom. So I’ll look around this site for where to post this question, and possibly upload my pictures.

Welcome aboard! I think you may want to ask that question here:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/forum/16-masting-rigging-and-sails/

[mtaylor]

Welcome aboard, Jerry.   

 

I'd suggest you do your introduction here:   https://modelshipworld.com/forum/3-new-member-introductions/  but instead of this topic, create a topic of your own.   It will get you more "eyes" on your intro than this corner.  

 

Lots of folks around to help so do a build log when you're ready.

[Photo Bud]

On 6/22/2016 at 12:19 PM, ccoyle said:

I found twelve unfinished build logs started by first-time builders. In ten of those build logs, the new builder never made it past completing the hull of his ship. In the other two, the builder never started the model at all.

 

This statement fits me to a tee. I got interested back around 2003, bought models and ship building books. Joined the Seaways Ship Modeling list back in 2004 (and recently got some new emails from that list). Watched some videos and froze up. I want a planked ship and the whole planking thing never made sense and after overthinking it, dropped the idea. I'm hoping that I can break that mental block now. I started the Amati Endeavor and got the bulkheads in place and shaped the mast, then stopped after reading (and re-reading) the explanations of how to shape the strakes and throwing up my hands in defeat.

 

What I really need is to sit down with a real person who can show me how this is done. Unfortunately, with Covid, this probably won't happen soon and I will try to find some youtube explanations and demonstrations that can help me.

 

So, bear with me as I lurk and hopefully ask some really novice questions.

[spear]

I think falling by the wayside is found in many hobbies, particularly those with a considerable time investment. Many beginners don't appreciate just how long projects like this take.

It is very much the same in another hobby of mine, model engineering (sadly on hold because the college workshop I use is shut due to covid). Many projects start but soon are left on the shelf. As has been said this may be because of life issues or simply that the builder didn't appreciate just what was involved.

The advice given there to beginners is very similar, don't pick a super complex project first up. But interestingly, it is also said don't just pick a project because it is for beginners, you will probably be looking at this for years so pick something which appeals and you want to see finished. If you have your heart set on that major project then go for it but be aware what you are taking on.

Having wanted to take the plunge into wooden ships since I was a child I am now on the point of doing so, it's only taken 50 odd years. I am planning on starting with the De Agostini Victory cross section and, if I get that far possibly moving on to one of Vanguard's fishing vessels. One day I would like to do the Mary Rose having seen it raised and a number of times since, but we shall see.

[macleadg]

I'm a new modeler, having just taken up the hobby this year, due to COVID.  My "trigger" was a gorgeous, elaborate model I saw in a Sushi restaurant.

 

I started with an extremely simple model (a $25 dory kit), and moved up gradually to more complicated endeavors.  I recently finished my 4th kit which is a tugboat I decided to customize, and is from the Liman 2 kit from Turkmodel.  (I posted pictures of it here).  I'm currently working on the Essex kit from Occre.

 

I enjoy ship modelling, and I'm not quitting because:

1. I decided at the start to respect the craft, and assumed that learning it would take a long time.

2. I did a lot of research.  I watched a lot of videos, both on YouTube, and on a DVD set I ordered from Modelers Central.

3.  I assumed I would make mistakes, and assumed my early attempts would look pretty bad.  The goal of those early attempts was to learn, not to make a fine, finished product (although they actually look better than I thought they would).

4. I decided before starting that I would not get upset if I made a mistake, and to treat mistakes as learning opportunities.

5. I bought a lot of tools; many turned out to be of no use, but some have made all the difference in the world (glue syringe!  rigging wax!  forceps!).

 

[JKC27]

Been a boatnerd my whole, living near the Detroit River - St. Lawrence Seaway, and also a major port on the seaway.  However.......my quest to find models of these kinds of ships is like finding a hay colour needle in hay stack.  Or a looking for a non-existent needle is more like it.  I've learned that basic model kits like you'd find for famous warships or Titanic, just aren't, and never were made for your everyday merchant ships that carry grain and iron ore.  Likely, it's such a niche area of interest, manufacturers figure there isn't a market, well there is!  I suppose it could be licensing/rights/etc.

 

So.....now me, current mid 40s boatnerd, decided to do it myself, after talking to many people online and at local hobby shops - every person says "scratch built", so I found this site as an extra added resource - and it's fantastic despite having not a lot of the same ship model that I want to do.  However, that doesn't mean you don't have access to a wealth of information from other modellers builds.  I have been able to take ideas/advice from members on here that have helped me tremendously.

 

The key part is doing research - especially for new modeller.  That doesn't mean start too easy, but look at pictures, read up on the ship(s), look at what materials you might want to use and of course have access to.  Also for tools - don't go and spend a ton of $ (if you don't really have it) for a bunch of tools that you might not end up using if you don't carry on with this hobby.  This is a very rewarding hobby, and can get quite expensive too.  Also, don't rush your build, especially your first one.  Make the best of your time, don't be scared to make mistakes or be anxious of not having a museum quality model with your first attempt (or 2 or more).

 

One word of caution I wish I could go back and give myself.....be careful when acquiring plans/prints - only get/process what you need!  I got an amazing resource of shipyard plans for my next build - didn't take the time to go through the prints and brought them to a local shop to have 2 copies printed.  Well let me say this.......  I nearly fell on the floor when I went to pick them up and saw the invoice.  There were so many rolls of plans I had to have the worker help me take them to my car!!!!!  My wife, who totally supports my hobby(ies) understood and didn't make me sleep in the garage for a month.  My excitement got the best of me.  Then to have the lady at the print shop say she thought I was building a huge ship locally and I worked for a shipyard or engineering firm.......well guess what lady - I know your staff thought my plans were super cool - but there are no shipyards within 400km of me to undertake such a project!

 

Really though - the most important thing is - don't give up on it, and have fun with it - enjoy your hard work and creativity.

[Irish Niall]

On 22/06/2016 at 6:19 PM, ccoyle said:

Dear prospective ship modeler,

 

Welcome! If you're reading this, it's probably because you are ready and raring to get started on a first ship model. But before you do, allow me to share the following with you.

 

We get a lot of first-time builders on this forum. People who are eager to build a first ship model are attracted to the hobby for a variety of reasons. Perhaps you were captivated by a stunning model of the USS Constitution or the HMS Victory. Maybe you have a beloved relative who was a modeler. Or it could be that you just have a love of the sea, even if you've never sailed on anything larger than a rowboat. All of us came to MSW with similar motivations. Those of us who have been at this for a while not only love the hobby, but also love passing along our experience to new builders. It's a special treat to see a new modeler persevere through the joys and sorrows (and often tedium) of building a ship model and arrive successfully at the end of a build with a finished model to be proud of.

 

Unfortunately, many of those eager new members also turn out to be last-time builders as well. There are lots of reasons why a first-timer might give up. Building a nice ship model requires the learning of many new skills, a not inconsiderable amount of tenacity, and usually a significant time investment. Some new modelers get bored, others get overwhelmed, and some get overtaken by things like career changes, cross-country moves, babies, sudden illnesses -- that life stuff we all have to deal with occasionally. We understand those things happen. We get it.

 

This post, though, is written for a particular kind of first-time modeler: the modeler who takes on more ship then they can handle. Unfortunately, this kind of modeler is all too common. Bewitched by a clipper ship or sailing man-of-war, this kind of newbie believes that they can jump right in and build something similar.

 

Allow me to use an analogy. I'm not a pilot, but I love old warbirds. Suppose I go to an airshow and, having been awed by the spectacle, decide to go out and buy a P-51 and take her up for a few high-g maneuvers. All with no flying experience, mind you. I don't have to tell you how that first flight is likely to end up.

 

Sadly, many of the newcomers to MSW have a similar experience with model ships. They come brimming with pluck and determination, convinced that they can build a Constitution or Victory. In most instances, these bright-eyed neophytes wind up like the over-zealous new P-51 owner -- dead. Well, unlike the pilot, the would-be modelers are probably still alive, but their dreams of nice model ships have certainly gone to a better place.

 

Now, before I go any further, allow me to make a few things perfectly clear. Am I saying that a new modeler should never attempt a complicated model or that newcomers never finish such models? No, I'm not saying that. There are a few modelers who have attempted such projects and completed them, so it is certainly possible. But those modelers are very few in number. And we don't have any rules about what kind of model you can or can't build around here. If you absolutely, positively have to have a crack at a three-decker or frigate, then have at it. We'll be glad to help you along the way. But just be aware ahead of time how much of a challenge you are getting yourself into.

 

Let me throw some numbers at you to illustrate my point. One of my jobs here at MSW is to comb through old build logs and edit the titles of completed builds to show that the model has been finished (it makes searching for finished models easier). Obviously, as I sift through the builds I find many unfinished ones. On just one page that I was recently checking, I found twelve unfinished build logs started by first-time builders. In ten of those build logs, the new builder never made it past completing the hull of his ship. In the other two, the builder never started the model at all. Nine of those twelve modelers are no longer active on this site. I did not include among those twelve modelers any who gave a life-got-in-the-way reason for suspending their build. They're simply twelve modelers who eagerly started their project and then, usually quite early on, just gave up and quietly disappeared without giving any reasons why.

 

Those twelve builds all had one thing in common: each modeler had chosen a model that posed significant challenges for a first-time builder. Some of those models would have been a challenge even for a skilled builder. Simply put, they doomed their attempt at modeling by choosing a model that was over their head.

 

All of us ship modelers know how real the temptation is to skip an entry-level model and go straight for lots of guns and lots of sails. But here's the whole point I want to make: seriously think twice about caving into that temptation. The evidence speaks for itself - literally hundreds of abandoned build logs begun by modelers who bit off more than they could chew. Many of them not only abandoned their build, they also gave up on the hobby entirely.

 

It didn't have to be that way. Making a good start by honestly appraising your skill level and deciding to go with a simple first model is one of the surest ways to success in this hobby. Most true beginner models -- those actually designed for beginners and not merely labeled as such -- don't require a lot of money, time, or expensive tools. In a few weeks you'll know if this hobby is for you without having gotten yourself worked up over a model you couldn't realistically complete. And you know, most of us here enjoy watching the progress on a relatively 'easy' model, like a small sailboat, just as much as we enjoy watching the progress on an HMS Victory -- especially when we see those models being finished and proudly displayed.

 

And you know what? Success breeds further success. 

 

For more information on choosing a first model, check out the NRG modeling resources page.

 

Choose wisely, enjoy the journey, and I look forward to seeing you complete your first build log.

 

Respectfully,

Chris

Thanks so much for that. Great advice. I have just received my first kit. Its the polaris from occre in Spain. I too wanted to jump in and buy a huge kit like HMS Victory from Amati but I'm trying to follow advice and start small. I laughed when I opened the box yesterday when I seen all the parts and new I would need as much help as possible with this basic kit. I can't comprehend the skill levels on some of you guys with these huge ships but figure if you can do it then someday I might be able to do it. Can anybody give their impression of the Polaris kit from Occre and also on the mayflower first step kit from Amati. Thanks lads. 

Niall (Ireland) 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪

Go gcuire Dia an t-àdh ort!

 

[ccoyle]

40 minutes ago, Irish Niall said:

Can anybody give their impression of the Polaris kit

 

Dia dhuit!

 

Search through the build log index. There are several builds of this kit in progress.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

Well said advice.  I've admired my Wasa hull (planked in 1973) for decades, taking it off there shelf many time over the years, and now recent research has given me the ideas needed to do more on it - at least to the stage one can see the original in Stockholm.  Building tips available on this site (with just a little searching) are invaluable, and an inspiration.  I'll never reach the highest levels of craftsmanship in miniaturization some have shared online, but I don't need to.  Have several hobbies and 'graze' among them as the spirit moves.  Self-motivation and self-satisfaction are the reasons to do anything.

[AJohnson]

It has been interesting to read this thread and learn I am not alone in biting off more than I could chew with a build!  After a Caldercraft "Sherbourne" I thought I could tackle their "Bounty"..... that was over ten years ago! and one unfinished build log that demised along with MSW 1.0 I think (so technically I'm not one of those with an unfinished build log! 🤣 )  Thing is I did also buy their "Snake" but opted for the Bounty first as I mistakenly thought it would be easier as it was smaller, wrong!  Considering whether to start up another build log on the Bounty now I have restarted it, but that might be tempting fate....

[mtaylor]

Andrew, by all means start a log.   You can play "catch up" on  opening post or so and bring everyone up to date.

[AJohnson]

12 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Andrew, by all means start a log.   You can play "catch up" on  opening post or so and bring everyone up to date.

Will do, spent a bit of time today trawling my picture files and it brought back some memories, ouch the frustration of ripping off  about 200 copper plates! 😆

[Gus M]

Thank you all for this thread, I have read it carefully (and saved it) and it has been very helpful in deciding what will be my first attempt at a model.

[Mercator]

I am a long time modelers, strictly styrene and resin. Ships airplanes and armor (WWI). Did a lots of figures (medievals). Lately decided to try my hands at 

something new. So I set my sight on the Artesiana Latina Swift (the older one). A wonderful kit for beginners, within two months it was completed. Made

mistakes but learn from it and was happy with the end result. A neighbor was impressed with the model and gave me the Artesiana Latina Zuiderzee

Blotter that he found in his attic. Some of the parts are missing so as the instructions. Challenging but again very rewarding when I find a solution. Those are small and easy to display, also by having a relatively easier kit that you can complete is rewarding and encouraging. 

As a newcomer my recommendations are, start something simple that you can complete, simple rigging, use your newly acquired knowledge to by 

appropriate tools, do not get discouraged the learning curve can be steep!

[brightonseagulls]

Hi All

 

I registered here a few years ago and I will be honest I fell into the habit of starting and then moving on to other plastic models ( Discovered the old Airfix, now Dapol locomotives and built some of them) 

 

I built the AL  Hermione and it took me 2 years and it is HUGE.  My wife wants shot of it as it takes up half the shelving space in the bedroom.  I did the AL Swift which is a fabulous kit and I am really happy with it.  Not too big and looks really good.

 

I am doing Le Reynard at the moment and into the rigging stage.  Just deciding if to do it with sails or not. 

 

I find my biggest problem on all my ship builds is joining the planking to the bow of the ships. I bend the planks enough, but butting them up to the prow just looks a right mess and I end up filling the gaps with wood filler. Practice/Practice/Practice

 

Hope everyone is staying safe and well.

 

Cheers 

dave 

[MisterCA]

Hi.. New to this. Thanks for the input about the hobby. I am building the “Lady Nelson” which I understand is a beginner model. I’m into many hours already so far. The process is what I appreciate. The outcome of the build to this point is OK. Lots of correction techniques 😄. I have learned a lot from the forum so far. Thanks for all your inputs. I have pictures but they are embarrassing.

[GrandpaPhil]

We are always our own worst critic.  My first hull that I planked was terrible.  That’s actually the most difficult part of a model for me.  This is a great place to learn.

[Genesi]

Wish I had found this topic sooner. New aspiring modeler here. Im going to step out on a limb and say that the Mantua Sergal Soleil Royale that just showed up on my doorstep may not have been the bestchoice as a 1st model? For some reason I waited until after the purchase to start researching advice. I have now come to the realization that this model will go straight to my shelf and most likely stay there for a few years while I work up to it. This topic was made for people such as myself.....the problem is...people such as myself leap then look so not sure how many will read this in time. Thanks for the advise.

[mtaylor]

19 hours ago, Genesi said:

Wish I had found this topic sooner. New aspiring modeler here. Im going to step out on a limb and say that the Mantua Sergal Soleil Royale that just showed up on my doorstep may not have been the bestchoice as a 1st model? For some reason I waited until after the purchase to start researching advice. I have now come to the realization that this model will go straight to my shelf and most likely stay there for a few years while I work up to it. This topic was made for people such as myself.....the problem is...people such as myself leap then look so not sure how many will read this in time. Thanks for the advise.

 

Look on the bright side, at least you found out before you started the Soleil Royale.   When you're ready to start your learning process, be sure to start a log on the project (or projects) as it's a great way to get help and meet other builders.

[Gregory]

20 hours ago, Genesi said:

Wish I had found this topic sooner.

Its not to late to put the Soleil Royale on the shelf and build a couple of simpler kits just to get a feel for the craft..

[Chuck Seiler]

20 hours ago, Genesi said:

I have now come to the realization that this model will go straight to my shelf and most likely stay there for a few years while I work up to it.

    You wouldn't be the first.  I agree with Gregory, start with simpler kits.  Build them for their own benefit but also as a work up to "Soleil".  Check out the plans and instructions from time to time and if there are questions, work out the issues with the simpler models.  Those are easier to deconstruct and rebuild.

[Stevinne]

I just wish that there was a standard for model instructions. I've put my third kit - the Mamoli Roter Lowe - on the shelf for a while because the instructions are so bad. I built the Constructo Enterprise (not great instructions, but I could work through them), the AL Reynard (at least they came with nice pictures to show me what to do) and dozens of plastic airplanes and ships with pretty complicated photo etch. I recently turned the mini Mamoli America into a New York pilot boat and am now finishing up the Model Expo Harriet Lane since they have relatively easy instructions and give me an excuse to try tackling the Mamoli instructions.

[EJ_L]

Unfortunately for beginning ship model builders, many of the available kits have instructions that are more like reading blueprints than traditional instructions. I think that the plastic kits by Revel and Heller etc., do a better job of providing more step-by-step instructions than wooden kits. Finding those easier kits is good as they will give you the basics needed to make the harder ones easier to understand. Most kits at their base levels are the same. A plank on bulkhead goes together in much the same way regardless of scale or size. The main differences come in the amount of details, guns carvings and rigging.

 

Use the community as well. Most of the common models available have logs, lots of pictures and people that can offer advice and guidance when something is unclear.

[mtaylor]

Stevinne, have a look at the Vanguard Models and also Syren Models builds here.  From what I've heard, they have some of the best instructions and the designers are here on MSW.

[Bob Cleek]

58 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Stevinne, have a look at the Vanguard Models and also Syren Models builds here.  From what I've heard, they have some of the best instructions and the designers are here on MSW.

For example, consider Syren's Medway Longboat. It's not exactly a "beginners" model, but an attentive, determined, careful builder who can follow instructions (or ask Chuck Passaro, the kit designer here on MSW) can build quite an impressive model of an Admiralty longboat that is identical in all respects with the contemporary model at the Royal Maritime Museum at Greenwich.

 

Syren's website makes the instructions available. The link is halfway down the page: Medway Longboat (1742) (syrenshipmodelcompany.com)  Chuck's instructions make all the difference in the world. As far as I've seen, only Syren and Vanguard have produced models with instructions that make it possible for an entry-level modeler to succeed if you follow them step by step. There's no reason your first model has to end up looking crudely built if you take time and follow good instructions. You'll find many here at MSW who have "gone over to the dark side" and scratch-build spectacular works of art over a period of years after spending the better part of a lifetime studying and researching their subjects. Without that knowledge, which takes time to acquire, it's impossible to build a kit model that looks like the (professionally built) picture on the kit box without extensive "kit bashing" and replacement of stock parts and materials with after-market upgrades. You'll get there soon enough, but you aren't likely to take any wrong turns starting out with something like the Medway Longboat kit which really does make it possible for a dedicated beginner to build a model any modeler would be proud to display. 

 

In my opinion, the best way to learn is by building a challenging, sophisticated kit that has good instructions, rather than a "dumbed down" "beginner's kit" with inadequate instructions. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[mtaylor]

There is a group build for the Medway Longboat here:   https://modelshipworld.com/forum/77-medway-long-boat-1742-public-group-project/  

[Genesi]

I agree 100 percent Stevinne. Instructions are paramount to a beginner like myself. Oviously less so once you have done a few as EJ-L pointed out that most builds would be similar as far as planking goes other than details and placing, but the skills required take time. At least these are my thoughts as I have not done so yet. I am a tradesman at heart and work with wood and other materials and know that although you can tell someone how to do something....it takes actually doing over time to learn it. But without a physocal mentor then some good quality instructions are invaluable while learning. I want to thank all of you for the advice on build logs and possible "starter" options. I know I over stepped with the Soleil but that doesnt mean I wamt to start off at lvl zero. I enjoy a challenge and would get board doing something that didnt interest me. Bob Cleek speaks my sentiments when he said "

In my opinion, the best way to learn is by building a challenging, sophisticated kit that has good instructions, rather than a "dumbed down" "beginner's kit" with inadequate instructions."

 

[Antyronnen]

Over 50 years ago I bought my fourth wooden boat kit.  Inside the box, together with the plans, an instruction booklet and wooden sheets and strips was a booklet, in 8 languages.  I found it today.  It reads as follows:

 

“You are about to begin the exciting task of building a ********** model, and I hope you will have many pleasant hours doing so.

The most important point is that this kit is intended to be built, and not assembled, in consequence, you must not expect the parts to fit together perfectly, it will be necessary to exercise skill and imagination in the building of this kit.

I have tried to make the parts as accurate as possible, but thought and care should be exercised during construction.  However I believe that this is one of the reasons for the popularity of my kits, after all, any child could put a puzzle together.

I wish you a lot of success in building your model.”

 

I wonder if something similar were to be printed on the outside of kit boxes it would reduce the mismatch between expectation and reality.  It might, of course, reduce sales!

Antony

 

[Laggard]

This newbie got model shipways 18th century longboat as his first kit.   It was nominally listed as a good beginners kit.  I was surprised how little detail the instructions provided.   “Strap the block to the mast” was literally all one section said with no instructions on how to do so.   Lots of resources on line but growing up building plastic kits that basically held your hand through the whole build I found it odd that a new modeler was expected to know how to do some of these things. I’d like to find a current book conveniently providing details on how to do these things.  Some of the helpful advice I got from people here were drawings from early 20th century German books on modeling.  Crazy.