HMS Agamemnon by mobbsie - FINISHED - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1/64

[Bummer!]

Good to see you got through the planking with your sanity intact. (Or?)

 

Also pleased to see you got help with the gore, then I did not have to tell you I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Now it's just the coppering before all the fun stuff starts... how many copper plates??? 

[flyer]

Hi Mobbsie

It seems that coppering wasn’t following one simple set of rules. There are some examples as the famous model of HMS Bellona or you could watch the actual coppering on USS Constitution – which are of course following different rules.

The Gore Line is a line where the pattern of the courses of the copper changes. It may be or may not be necessary to introduce some.

On my so far only example of a coppered hull (Pegasus, of course) I tried to follow those two examples and the instructions in Edwin B. Leaf’s ‘Ship modeling from scratch’.

There he says:

The top of the copper is usually about one foot above the load waterline, so the first step is to establish the top of the copper, even though you’ll actually be starting at the bottom when you apply the plates.

…

Establish the pattern for the coppering which is influenced by the shape of the hull. The courses of the copper do not follow the lines of the planking. You don’t have to line out every row, just the general flow and the gore lines(…).Because of the curvature of the hull successive parallel courses of plates would result in the ends of the courses curving up radically toward the ends.

…

Since the upper plates overlap the lower ones, and the forward plates overlap the after plates, start attaching the plates to the hull at the keel and sternpost. … Note also that the first row on each side of the keel slightly overlaps the keel or sternpost. …

 

So far, so good but still I really didn’t know how to establish the gore lines before the coppering.

 

In the end, I did mark the upper line of the copper and simply started coppering the way he tells us - bottom and aft.

Whenever I felt it necessary I put in some ‘stealers’ at the stern.

In the process of coppering upwards I actually never felt a gore line was necessary so I just continued upwards. Of course I worked alternating on both sides to keep symmetry.

The waterline was coppered with two lines of horizontal plates, the way it’s shown in the book. On USS Constitution there is one horizontal line of plates. Of course you could continue the normal pattern, cut the plates along the water line and cover the cut edges with a small batten – Bellona style.

 

Phew…I hope this helps!

 

Cheerio

Peter

[mobbsie]

Hi Guys,

 

Thank you all for your input and suggestions but in the end I decided to go with my instinct, I have put in one gore line which is 7 strakes up. I decided not to put any plates on the waterline just yet but to wait and see how things pan out.

 

Eric, there are approximately 2500 plates to fit so it's not a quick half hour job, the manual reckons on 2 weeks of evening work, they got that wrong.

 

OK, I have a few pics for Sjors, it's not the best coppering in the world but it's a start, my old school report comes to mind " must try harder".

 

Every journey starts with the first step

 

 

 

The first six strakes and the first gore line

 

 

 

Overall side view

 

 

So there we are, right up to date, tomorrow is another day.

 

mobbsie

[riverboat]

Look'n good  Tony, you're off to a good start   

Frank

[Script]

Mobbsie,

 

Good start.....before you know it you'll be half done..... :D :D

 

And it will seem like you just started...... :P

 

 

Jim

[Sjors]

Thank for the pictures my friend!

 

That looks really great!

And what do you think….finished in about 4 months?????

How did you measure that gore line?

I never hear for such line...

I also don't know what the meaning it has.

 

 

[Anja]

Hello Mobbsie,

 

I'm no expert on coppering, but it looks very good.

 

Take care my friendd.

 

Anja

[st george]

Mobbsie,

 

Nice start on the coppering.

[Jim Lad]

Ooooh!  Copper plates!  Nice start, Mobbsie!

 

John

[Landlubber Mike]

Nice work Mobbsie - I love the look of copper plates on a hull.  

[PMG]

Very impressive start, Mobbsie.

And thank you for the very didactical pictures.

Pierre

[rdsaplala]

Beautiful planking and coppering Mobbsie, she's turning out mighty fine

 

Regarding your question on establishing the gore lines, here is a fairly easy method quoted from Keith Julier's Period Ship Kit Builder's Manual (not sure exactly how historically accurate this particular technique is though):

 

 

What is a goreline? The most obvious gore line is the waterline itself, and it is readily seen that lines of plates curve upward, toward, and terminate at that straight line defined by the waterline.Some hull shapes require perhaps two or three gore lines.

 

The way that I have found to easily decide a satisfactory position for the first, is to take a planking strip and lay it on the hull such that it will take up its natural line when its edge crosses the waterline at the stem and stern post. A line marked onto the hull at this position is the first gore line.The first row of copperplates can be added to it, with subsequent rows added  above until the waterline is reached.

 

The second gore line can be established in a similar manner where the planking strip can again follow its natural curve  on the lower hull and intersect the first gore line at stem and stern. The space between the gore lines can then be filled in starting at the top of the second gore line and working upwards to the bottom of the first gore line.

 

Use the planking strip as before until its natural curve reaches the keel. No further gore lines are required once this situation is reached, and the plating continues in order to fill the gap between the keel and the underside of the last gore line.

[augie]

I think your 'instinct' is going to work out just fine.  Off to a good start ---- as mentioned by many.

 

Plate on!

[gjdale]

Yep, I've got to agree with others Mobbsie. Going with your gut seems to be giving you the right result. Great start! At your usual rate of progress I expect we'll see the coppering finished in a day or two at most.

[Trussben]

Good start there mobbsie, I've never coppered a hull so I'm afraid I am no help whatsoever.

 

Ben

[popeye the sailor]

since I can be of no help either.......I'll just cheer you on......GOOOOOOOOOOO....Mobbsie!

[mtaylor]

Excellent start on the copper, Mobbsie. 

[Bummer!]

Looking good Mobbsie.

Looks like I had a gore line on my Pegasus as well. Just didn't know it at the time.

I believe they appear naturally if you're lucky...

[Ray]

Hi Mobbsie

l have just started coppering Diana a test row first and am going to do it in a very similar up x amount of rows and a gore line when it looks right the same as I did on Pegasus. I will add a batten at the water line before more tiling, one good thing the caldercraft tiles stick well.

[Jeff-E]

Hi Mobbsie;

 

Very nice start to your coppering

[ZyXuz]

nice start.. hope to see them completed real soon

[DCIronfist]

That coppering looks great :)

[cpt. Tom]

Your coppering looks very good. I'll try that also with my next ship.

Edited June 11, 2013 by cpt. Tom

[Adrieke]

nice work Mobbsie i have never done coppering but it seems very difficult in getting each piece nicely lined up

[hamilton]

Hi Mobbsie:

 

I've coppered only 2 hulls in my time - the Phantom and the Kate Cory. I didn't really worry about gore lines (though if I had read this log I might have taken a different approach). So far, your coppering looks great. Make a pot of tea and a sandwich or two and keep on going!

hamilton

[themadchemist]

You never cease to amaze.

[mobbsie]

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for looking in and the kind comments, suggestions and remarks, appreciate them all.

 

Andrieke, it's not that difficult when you get started, you will every now and then get one that overlaps slightly but generally it's not a problem. I found my biggest problem was / is that when gluing a plate down the time allowed for adjustment varies a lot, you can place a plate and move it time and again, place another one and the glue grabs straight away, if it's not in the correct position it then needs to be cut off.

 

Another problem I've found is crushing the plate pattern, when cutting or trying to shape a plate it's easy to squash the rivets, this does have an adverse effect to the finish, as I've just found out, overall the effect is pleasing but don't look to close, there are a few howlers.

 

Unfortunately Hamilton I don't eat in my workroom, only coffee and soft drinks allowed, but I'm pressing on.

 

I do have a few pics of the completed starboard side and If anybody has a suggestion for improving the port side please don't hold back.

 

An almost completed side

 

 

 

Starboard side is now complete

 

 

 

 

As way of distraction I decided to have a go at the rudder, not as easy as I first thought.

 

 

 

So there we have it, right up to date, any suggestions will be warmly received.

 

mobbsie

 

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Mobbsie, that coppering looks fantastic, a lot to get through!  I assuming that the Aggie comes with the same white metal gudgeons/pintles as the Snake, and it look like you had a similar curve to the corners of your rudder rebates.  Its probably worth squaring these off as well as the pintles to make sure you get a good fit.  I'm also wondering if you'll run into challenges gluing the pintles in place with the raised dimples on the plates preventing these adhering very well.  The Snake instructions recommend to simply paint the inside surface with copper paint, its really not noticeable when finished.

[Script]

Looks Great! 

 

 

Jim

[mobbsie]

Hi Jason,

 

Thanks for the heads up mate, I have just checked with the manual and it does say to paint the stern post copper, but only the stern post. I will check the rudder alignment tomorrow and see how that goes, it wont take much to remove the plates from the inside edge. :mellow:

 

You are correct about the white metal parts, the pins are quite small, I was trying to avoid using copper paint if I could, it never seems to match very well.

 

Thanks again, appreciated.  

 

mobbsie