achuck49

how to work with teeny blocks???

45 posts in this topic

I am nearly finished with the Dominica from Amati and have run into a 'painful' process that is common to all of the models that I have worked on.  How to wrap cord/string/thread around blocks that are as small as shown in the attached photo.

 

 I have put pins in them and attached to cork boards, but when it comes time to place thread around the outside, into the grooves, the thread will move off the block, or the block will twist in circles.  Placing it between my fingers is the only solution that I have come up with.  However, this is not a great way to do it either.  They are so small that I cannot see it when trying to capture with thread.  When I finally get it right, I end up dumping glue all over myself and this often removes the thread when I separate my fingers.

 

I have tried tieing loops and any other methods that I can think of to no avail.

 

any ideas will be so welcomed.

 

Chuck

post-3838-0-96185800-1419701902_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that if I place a tiny amount of CA in the groove it holds the thread in place. I either loop the thread around the block then apply the ca or I touch the CA to the groove then put the thread in it.

ulrich, augie and grsjax like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chuck,

Have you tried using a pair of normally closed (ie. pinch to open) tweezers? They may hold the blocks long enough and with enough pressure to complete the task at hand.

avsjerome2003 and tasmanian like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cloathing pin in a vice does the trick for me.

Put the rope around the block, and put in the pin, such that the rope is held in place. Tie theknot, put someglue onit, and you're ready for the next.

It even works with blocks that are smaller.

 

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get yourself a cheap fly tying vice - used for making flys in flyfishing. There are lots available on EBay. It will grip any block (or any other part for that matter) firmly and allow you both hands free to work. For really small blocks use in combination with a magnifier on a stand.

 

post-1505-0-11565100-1419715728.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

super fast responses!

 

I have tried the clips, and vises with out much luck.  However, I have not tried them by first putting some CA into the small grooves first.

 

I am going to try to blend the given ideas with the CA in the grooves.

 

Thanks so much

 

Chuck ... wanting to just finish, learn and try again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I clamp the block in my vise. I use tweezers to hold the block while I tighten the clamp. Then I brush a liberal amount of diluted PVA around the groove and also dampen the line with it  - this helps hold the line in place. Then I loop the line around the block and tie an overhand knot in the line, brush on a bit more PVA if needed, and pull it tight and adjust it so it hangs realistically. Then I clean up any excess glue with a Q-tip. Finally I snip the tail off after the glue has dried.

 

:cheers:  Danny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This site is full of great people.

 

Progress is better...I found an alligator clip which I placed into a vise.  I then put some glue on the string and quickly wrap it around the block.  This works 'most' of the time.  The string sometimes is slightly off the groove on the back side of the block.  I then get it in place and tie it off.  This reduces the time from 8 to 2 minutes per block.  I believe that a major part of the problem is the thread that I am using is synthetic instead of natural.  I studied the pictures that were sent and noticed that a more natural thread was used in all of the illustrations.  Lesson learned.

 

I will finish this model (not at all happy with the results) and give it to some very young nephews who think that I am a true master.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

CaptainSteve, edmay and mtaylor like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for myself - I find that CA and rigging dont go together - except to put on the end of the thread to create a temporary "needle" to thread through blocks etc.

I also go along with Dafi and use drill bits  through the eyes - OR my own version - thread wire through the eyes and stick the ends into a rubber or a bit of foam

post-905-0-84111300-1419789483_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To handle the CA take a brass wire and insert it into a dowel. Then form a small ring in the end of it. Put a drop of CA on a piece of parchment paper or some other surface it will not soak in on. Then take your block wrap the line tightly around it and hold the two loose ends between your fingers. With the other hand dip the ring in the ca and touch it to the rigging on the side of the block. Use thin CA and it will immediately adhere to the line and block. The tool allows you to contro, the amount of CA you apply. This is what i found works for me.

thibaultron and tkay11 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over time the tool becomes coated with the CA. Whe. This happens cut the end off and form a new ring. You can keep doing this until it becomes too short then replace the wire with a new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My preference is simply that line becomes brittle with CA in a way it doesnt with "white glues" - but each to his own.

tkay11 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the Constrictor Knot in these situations. Its a very simple, very compact, very strong knot perfect for seizing. Here is a tutorial I put up a while back on the most simple method of tying this great useful knot: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4029-the-constrictor-knot/?hl=constrictor

Tie the constrictor ahead of time in the small stuff you are using for the seizing, don't pull the knot tight yet, leave the loops wide open. Pass a bight of the heavier thread you are using for the blocks strop THROUGH the Constrictor Knots loop and then over and around your tiny little block. As mentioned above, clip your block into the holding contraption of your choice.

Pull the two ends of the Constrictor Knot tight. The knot will Constrict and from now on it will behave like a collar that will NOT loosen, you can take your hands off it and it stays put. Pull the two ends of your stropping material apart and work the Constrictor Knot down snug against your tiny little block.

The beauty of the Constrictor Knot is that it will HOLD when you tighten it. You can tug and pull it to manipulate it where you want it to go. You can use the two leftover long ends to put more turns on your throat seizing or you can just cut the ends short.

CaptainSteve and thibaultron like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I simply make a loop with a granny knot the pinch the loop and block between my finger and thumb in my left hand the pull one of the tails tight and tie off a second granny knot and secure with the smallest dabs of SG. Works for me down to 2mm blocks and have done so with a good few of them.N

 

Norman

thibaultron likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is another way to use a clamp or hemostats to hold the block while attaching a line around it. The video is primarily intended to show what seizings are all about but it also shows how I hold the block. I have five of these clamps (some with a curved end) and have adjusted the gap by carefully bending one of the handles using a vise. That way I can clamp parts of various thicknesses. Shop around and you can find them at lots of different places for a couple dollars each.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should admit it is a big challenge, such tiny details are really difficult to deal with, for now my first models are not full of teeny blocks, but step by step I will full them with all such stuff. Hope to succeed in this challenge!

Modeler12 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing to consider is most smaller blocks need the groove for the strop filed deeper. It takes a little time but I tidy up very block this way, as well as reaming out the sheave hole . 

thibaultron likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the fly tying vise, might get one of those.

A friend set me up with needle nose tweezers mounted to a third-hand work stand.  Clamp the block in there and position where you can get to everything.  Radio Shack has small all-copper alligator clips.  Pass the line around the block to where both ends come out towards you.  Apply the alligator clip, pulling the two ends up tight.  Using thin line (thread) between the clip and block tie a series of half hitches around the pair of 'tails' until they are secure (usually four hitches suffice).  Put a drop of glue on (please not CA)  and you can take the clip off.  Combine that with whatever sort of thimble, hook, pendant, tackle you need and you should be good to go.

 

This is about a 1/8" block, I have done down to 3mm.

 

post-17589-0-82060900-1423002632_thumb.jpg

post-17589-0-97383700-1423002661_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work and very good detail in tying the knot.
 
In 1/100 scale it would be a little more difficult with fine thread don't you think.
 
I CA the groove and lay thread over till dry then wind round thread and tie/ seize ether loop or long length.
DSCF5070_zpsb28f7213.jpg

DSCF5071_zpscebffff1.jpg

DSCF5113_zps1abd049b.jpg

DSCF5119_zps292894f3.jpg

foxy :piratebo5:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The wisdom on this site stuns me.  When I finish two boats in bottles I will get back to something larger and try these techniques out.

 

Thanks

foxy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a wonderful thread. I've been struggling with my 3mm blocks, but now am seeing nice results using ideas posted here. Thank you everyone.

 

EJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still struggling with those blocks, but finally found an appropriate fly tying vise.

 

Tried to post a pic but the site won't allow me to. I use photobucket.

 

EJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a huge help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still struggling with those blocks, but finally found an appropriate fly tying vise.

 

Tried to post a pic but the site won't allow me to. I use photobucket.

 

EJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a huge help.

 

EJ, do you have a link where to buy the vise?

 

Thanks,

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ordered mine through Amazon. It is a Superior brand fly tying vise, model #2A, from Griffin Enterprises Co, Kalispell Montana. www.griffinenterprisesinc.com

they have several models, but I liked the narrow nose on this one.

 

EJ

RichardG and Canute like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might be different as I only work with my fingers sizing  off blocks even down to 2mm, generally using a couple of granny knots to lock the thread around the block , a dab of SG with one tail cut away or if sizing to a spar I tie off around the spar again with a couple of granny knots. In 3 build its worked well with only the odd failure which is simply replaced. I cant get used to clips clamps etc fingers work for me even though my joints are getting old and worn these days.

 

Norman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.