ccoyle

Dear prospective ship modeler, Welcome! If you're reading this, it's probably because you are ready and raring to get started on a first ship model. But before you do, allow me to share the following with you. We get a lot of first-time builders on this forum. People who are eager to build a first ship model are attracted to the hobby for a variety of reasons. Perhaps you were captivated by a stunning model of the USS Constitution or the HMS Victory. Maybe you have a beloved relative who was a modeler. Or it could be that you just have a love of the sea, even if you've never sailed on anything larger than a rowboat. All of us came to MSW with similar motivations. Those of us who have been at this for a while not only love the hobby, but also love passing along our experience to new builders. It's a special treat to see a new modeler persevere through the joys and sorrows (and often tedium) of building a ship model and arrive successfully at the end of a build with a finished model to be proud of. Unfortunately, many of those eager new members also turn out to be last-time builders as well. There are lots of reasons why a first-timer might give up. Building a nice ship model requires the learning of many new skills, a not inconsiderable amount of tenacity, and usually a significant time investment. Some new modelers get bored, others get overwhelmed, and some get overtaken by things like career changes, cross-country moves, babies, sudden illnesses -- that life stuff we all have to deal with occasionally. We understand those things happen. We get it. This post, though, is written for a particular kind of first-time modeler: the modeler who takes on more ship then they can handle. Unfortunately, this kind of modeler is all too common. Bewitched by a clipper ship or sailing man-of-war, this kind of newbie believes that they can jump right in and build something similar. Allow me to use an analogy. I'm not a pilot, but I love old warbirds. Suppose I go to an airshow and, having been awed by the spectacle, decide to go out and buy a P-51 and take her up for a few high-g maneuvers. All with no flying experience, mind you. I don't have to tell you how that first flight is likely to end up. Sadly, many of the newcomers to MSW have a similar experience with model ships. They come brimming with pluck and determination, convinced that they can build a Constitution or Victory. In most instances, these bright-eyed neophytes wind up like the over-zealous new P-51 owner -- dead. Well, unlike the pilot, the would-be modelers are probably still alive, but their dreams of nice model ships have certainly gone to a better place. Now, before I go any further, allow me to make a few things perfectly clear. Am I saying that a new modeler should never attempt a complicated model or that newcomers never finish such models? No, I'm not saying that. There are a few modelers who have attempted such projects and completed them, so it is certainly possible. But those modelers are very few in number. And we don't have any rules about what kind of model you can or can't build around here. If you absolutely, positively have to have a crack at a three-decker or frigate, then have at it. We'll be glad to help you along the way. But just be aware ahead of time how much of a challenge you are getting yourself into. Let me throw some numbers at you to illustrate my point. One of my jobs here at MSW is to comb through old build logs and edit the titles of completed builds to show that the model has been finished (it makes searching for finished models easier). Obviously, as I sift through the builds I find many unfinished ones. On just one page that I was recently checking, I found twelve unfinished build logs started by first-time builders. In ten of those build logs, the new builder never made it past completing the hull of his ship. In the other two, the builder never started the model at all. Nine of those twelve modelers are no longer active on this site. I did not include among those twelve modelers any who gave a life-got-in-the-way reason for suspending their build. They're simply twelve modelers who eagerly started their project and then, usually quite early on, just gave up and quietly disappeared without giving any reasons why. Those twelve builds all had one thing in common: each modeler had chosen a model that posed significant challenges for a first-time builder. Some of those models would have been a challenge even for a skilled builder. Simply put, they doomed their attempt at modeling by choosing a model that was over their head. All of us ship modelers know how real the temptation is to skip an entry-level model and go straight for lots of guns and lots of sails. But here's the whole point I want to make: seriously think twice about caving into that temptation. The evidence speaks for itself - literally hundreds of abandoned build logs begun by modelers who bit off more than they could chew. Many of them not only abandoned their build, they also gave up on the hobby entirely. It didn't have to be that way. Making a good start by honestly appraising your skill level and deciding to go with a simple first model is one of the surest ways to success in this hobby. Most true beginner models -- those actually designed for beginners and not merely labeled as such -- don't require a lot of money, time, or expensive tools. In a few weeks you'll know if this hobby is for you without having gotten yourself worked up over a model you couldn't realistically complete. And you know, most of us here enjoy watching the progress on a relatively 'easy' model, like a small sailboat, just as much as we enjoy watching the progress on an HMS Victory -- especially when we see those models being finished and proudly displayed. And you know what? Success breeds further success. For more information on choosing a first model, check out the NRG modeling resources page. Choose wisely, enjoy the journey, and I look forward to seeing you complete your first build log. Respectfully, Chris

Check Loyalhanna Dockyard. I have no personal experience with them, but they've been around for a while.

Por favor, que es necesario para publicar mensajes en Inglés . Utilizar un traductor de Internet, si es necesario. Gracias.

Read the article here, if you wish. I'm only sharing this because it is a shining example of extremely poor journalism. Contrary to the assertion that the story of the Cap Arcona's demise in 1945 has lain secret for 70 years, the story has long been known to those of us with an interest in the history of that period. HMV have offered a very nice model of the ship for at least a decade. Sigh ... another news 'story' that's really no story at all.

I edited your title to show the scale as 1:64 instead of 64:1. The latter would certainly make an impressive model, though!

Brian's point about ME pricing is worth noting. The seller should be made aware that he can't reasonably expect to use ME's MSRP pricing as a starting point. Over the years, I have seen many ME and MM models sold on eBay. Some of those older ME kits are still in production and pretty much identical to a kit being made now, so they should be priced based on what a current 2nd-hand, unbuilt, NIB kit could reasonably fetch. The price for anything OOP, and that includes all the MM kits, is going to depend on 1) the condition of the kit and 2) the subject. An old solid-hull Bluenose, for example, might not be worth much because the market's flooded with Bluenose kits, both old and new. An ME Forrester, on the other hand, is a rarer kit and only infrequently turns up on eBay, so it tends to go for a little more. Some of the really old kits might have some collector value, but what that value might be is going to require some research, like digging back through eBay's sold listings to see what the kit has sold for in the recent past. I think the seller should also realize that selling his kits as a single lot is going to cost him. Anyone who buys the whole lot with an eye towards reselling them is taking a risk; some kits are going to sell well and for a good price, and others are going to be hard to get rid of and will probably be worth little. The buyer has to take that into account if he's hoping to make a little profit, and that means he's going to have offer less than what the seller might be able to get if the seller sold the kits individually himself. Essentially, the seller will have to pay for the convenience of getting rid of the entire lot at one shot.

Por favor, que es necesario para publicar mensajes en Inglés . Utilizar un traductor de Internet, si es necesario. Gracias.

Last installment! Have you ever watched the show Pawn Stars on the History Channel? In this show, clients bring their treasures to the Gold & Silver Pawn Shop in Las Vegas, Nevada. The viewers then learn about the history of the item brought in and, ultimately, how much the item is worth. Most of the time, the owner hears that their treasure is not worth as much as they thought. Every once in a blue moon, though, some lucky owner discovers that their item is actually worth more than what they had estimated -- occasionally far more. But these instances are rare. Such is the case with model ships. There are lots of model ships out there in the world, but only a relative few of them are worth some serious scratch. A large number are essentially worthless, at least in monetary terms. In this episode, we'll look further into the question of what makes a model valuable. Let's suppose you have a model and that you took my advice in my previous post to have a hard look at it. You've decided that your model looks like a real scale model and not a piece of mass-produced decor or a Lego pirate ship. You can easily envision Russell Crowe at the helm. Now you're hoping that since it's a real scale model, it must surely have value. Not so fast! There are models, and then there are models that people actually want and will pay good money for. To illustrate this point, I'm going to show you two real scale models. One is worth some money, and the other, sadly, is not. First take a look at this model. It's a model of a real ship, the English revenue cutter Sherbourne, built in 1763 (the real ship, that is -- not the model). Now, you're probably thinking, "Hey, that's a nice model. I can see why it's worth something." Except this is the cheap model. If you or I were to take my model -- I mean, ahem, this model -- to a gallery thinking we've got a treasure, we'd be headed for disappointment. To you, this model might look great, but to the keen eye of a discriminating collector or knowledgeable gallery owner, it's got some problems. First, it's made from a kit. You, the novice, probably couldn't tell that by looking at it, but savvy modelers, collectors, and gallery owners know. Because it's built from a kit, that means it's not unique -- there's dozens of Sherbournes out there. Besides being made from a kit, it's made by a modeler with middling talent. Again, you might think the model is done very nicely, but experts will see right away those aspects of the model that were not built true to the original and the techniques that were used to make the model easier to build at the expense of scale fidelity. All of these things are knocks against the monetary value of the model. But there's an even worse thing about this model: it's simply not what most buyers want. There are exceptions, of course, but the really pricey models out there, the ones that collectors are willing to shell out several thousand dollars for, generally have three things: 1) lots of guns, 2) lots of rigging (sails and cordage), and 3) lots of fancy ornamentation. Oh, and did I mention lots of guns? My model -- I mean, ahem, the previous model -- has none of these things. It has few guns, little rigging, and essentially no ornamentation. What should a seller expect someone to pay for a model like this? If the seller is lucky (really lucky) and can find an actual buyer for the model, he might be able to squeeze a couple hundred dollars out of it, barely enough to cover the cost of the kit and certainly not enough to make modeling a lucrative or even profitable enterprise. Guns, rigging, fancy stuff. That's what collectors want. Something like this model of HMS Thunderer: Why is this model worth some dough? Consider the following: 1) It's got lots of guns (well, at least the ports for guns), lots of rigging, and lots of fancy decoration. 2) It's scratch built, not from a kit. That means it's a unique piece of art, not one of dozens of built-up kits. 3) It's built to a high standard of workmanship. Someone who builds models like this has spent a lot of time honing their skills. Model ships are like most any other commodity. The prices they fetch are based on two factors, demand and availability. Well-heeled collectors demand fancy models built to high standards. The number of builders who can build that kind of model is low, and it takes a lot of time to build such models, so the builder's output is low as well. For a model like Thunderer, it's a case of high demand (because everyone would like to have a model like Thunderer) + low availability = high prices. For a model like Sherbourne the equation is low demand + high availability = low prices. So, that basically it in a nutshell. Like the folks hoping to strike it rich at the pawn shop, most model ship owners are going to experience a letdown when they hear what their 'treasure' is worth. But cheer up - that unwanted model will still look good on your mantel, which can't be said for a Trabant. Cheers!

In this next installment of How to Spot a Cheesy Model, I want to show you the difference between a mass-produced model and an actual scale model built by a master modeler. Once you know what to look for, the cheap stuff is not hard to identify (and by 'cheap' I mean poorly made, not inexpensive). We're going to examine the stern of each model, so that we can see close up what separates class from crass. Both of the models I'll show you are of the famous American warship, the USS Constitution. First, let's look at the quality model. This particular model is built from scratch in 1/48th scale. It's currently listed for sale at a reputable maritime art gallery. The price of the model is not listed. It's kind of like shopping on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills -- if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it. The word I always think of when seeing a model like this is fine, as in fine wine or fine car. In this case, we're talking about fine craftsmanship. Note the detailed carvings, the meticulously neat painting, the clean run of planking, and the intricate web of rigging. True modelers endeavor to create models that are replicas of the original in every detail, with every part correctly proportioned. A great model looks like a real ship, only much smaller. Try picturing a 1/48th scale Russell Crowe (as Captain Jack Aubrey in Master & Commander) standing by the rail with a quartering wind filling the sails and the Connie with a bone in her teeth as she easily makes twelve knots. Now let's look at the expensive kindling. This model is available on-line for $535. The owner of the site says this model is built by 'master craftsmen' using 'original plans'. It is purportedly 'highly detailed' and built from 'high-grade wood' using 'plank on frame' construction. In reality, this model is none of those things. It is probably built in either the Philippines or Viet Nam by laborers who have never seen any plans of the actual Constitution; otherwise, they would have recognized how little their work resembles the real ship. The 'high-grade wood' includes western red cedar and mahogany, which are great for full-sized projects but not good modeling woods. When they say 'plank on frame' it is quite likely they mean 'plank on bulkhead', which might sound nit-picky to the uninitiated, but it's actually two substantially different construction methods with significant differences in both cost to produce and value of the finished product. And as for 'highly detailed'? Puh-leez! Just look at the incorrect hull shape, cheap metal castings, prison bar-like window frames, coarse-grained wood, and stick-on (stick on!) name badge. And are those supposed to be ship's boats hanging from the sides? Really?? Remember what I said about fine craftsmanship? This model is the opposite of that in every respect. It is crude, clunky, and misproportioned. Instead of Russell Crowe, there's a Lego sailor at the rail (and I have seen better-looking models made out of actual Legos). If these were cars, the first model would be a Ferrari. The second one is a Trabant. So, if you have a Mystery Model, take a good, hard look at it. Does it look like a finely crafted miniature ship? Or does it look crude and clunky? If it looks crude and clunky, it probably came from an unscrupulous dealer. Maybe the original buyer didn't do their homework before whipping out the plastic, or maybe they knew going in that they weren't really getting a unique piece of art. Either way, on the resale market it's value is likely to be decidedly less than what you hoped it might be! Next: It's a real model, but so what?

I somehow missed the conclusion of this build. Congratulations on another very fine model! I will be watching your build of Dreadnought with interest. Cheers!

Like most of us, I have a list of 'dream kits' that includes ships that are probably not all that popular. But I do think that two of the suggestions already put forth have merit. First, I completely agree with the sail-to-steam transition period being both under-represented in the hobby and offering a wealth of attractive potential subjects. Second, I wouldn't mind seeing something like the current Caldercraft Nelson's Navy line, but featuring American sailing men-of-war. Wasp and Peacock have already been mentioned; cobble one of those two together to go along with Syren, add in a gunboat, a schooner, and a frigate not named Constitution, and you'd be off to the races. For the frigate, I'd suggest Chesapeake. Bluejacket currently has a limited run of Kearsarge and Alabama -- how about offering up a twin bill of Chesapeake and HMS Shannon? I think those would be good sellers. No matter what you decide on, Chuck, I know it will be a first-class production.

Okay, let's delve into this subject a little further by examining a few Mystery Models and discussing what makes them something less than what they often claim or are thought to be. Take a look at Mystery Model #1. Hopefully, this one doesn't need too much explanation, since it is obviously a curio, something a kid would buy at the gift shop at Mystic Seaport. When the child outgrows it, it might be lucky enough to end up in a yard sale, but more likely it will get round-filed. But not all cheap models are so overtly cheesy. How about Mystery Model #2? This one looks nice -- from a distance. Once you get up close, you start seeing the chunky, over-sized fittings and less-than-stellar craftsmanship. This is clearly a decor piece. If you have a nautical theme in your office, and you don't want to shell out big bucks for a scale model, you might get something like this at the local home decorating store. Good luck selling it to someone else, though. Mystery Model #3 is something we see a lot of around here. It looks old. It looks antique. It must therefore be valuable, right? Wrong. This is a classic example of an older style of decor model, probably made in Spain. Columbus' ships were especially popular subjects. Some might have a plaque bearing the name "Fregatta" (fregatta is Spanish for 'frigate'). Unfortunately, unlike perhaps a matched pair of Holland & Holland shotguns, these models don't appreciate in value with age. They just get old, like shag carpet and avocado green appliances. Now, to mix things up a bit, let's look at a model that supposedly represents a ship still in existence. First we have the model: And now we have the real deal, the bark Star of India, the crown jewel of the San Diego Maritime Museum. At first glance, the model does kind of look like the real ship. But once again, the devil is in the details. Look closely at the real ship. Now look at the model. Notice the difference in the cut of the sails and the way the sails are set on their yards. Notice how fine the rigging looks on the real ship and how chunky it looks on the model. Notice how the model doesn't even have the proper rig (it has square sails on the mizzen mast, the mast at the rear of the ship; the real Star does not). If you could see the model up close, you would see that the lack of fidelity to the original extends to the deck fittings as well. In short, the model is only a crude likeness of the real thing. Now, here's the kicker. This Star of India model is available to purchase on the Internet for (wait for it) -- $999.99. I kid you not. And, sadly, it's kind of like a new car in the sense that once you drive it off the lot, its value plummets. "But wait," you might say, "I bought this model for $999.99, so it must be worth at least $999.99, right?" Um, no. In the first place, no one is going to pay $999.99 for your now-second-hand model when there are tons of brand-new ones available on the Internet. Second, I, at least, am certainly not going to pay that much for it, because I know where I can get a brand new model just like it for less than 1/10 of what you paid for yours (ouch)! In the next installment, I'll cue you in on what model ship buyers really want in a model and how much they might be willing to pay for it. Until then!

I'm not at a point in my life where I can commit to a group project, but I would be keenly interested in a C A Thayer build somewhere down the road.

I'm trying to let them down easy. Seriously, though, I will be adding some more content to this topic to enhance its educational value.

Hi! On a fairly regular basis, we here at MSW receive requests from new members for help with identifying a ship model, such as something like one of these: The request usually looks something like this: Now, we are happy to help you with this request, but since we get asked so often, I thought it would be good to finally put some info on mystery models in one topic thread so that you can maybe find your answer before you post. Here are some basic things you should know: 1. Many, many models have been built over the years for the sole purpose of serving as decor or memorabilia. This would be a model purchased at, say, Sea World or Home Goods. These models are usually built to low standards in parts of the world where labor is relatively cheap. Once upon a time, southern Europe was a hot-spot for their manufacture. Nowadays most such models are coming out of Southeast Asia. These models usually have little, if any, historical or resale value. If you shelled out for one at an auction, you are probably stuck with it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of models we get asked about fall into this category. 2. A similar category of models could be classified as folk art. These are, as the name implies, locally built models that are an artistic representation of a ship rather than a scale model. Like the decor models, these also usually have little value other than sentimental value. 3. Then there are models that are actual attempts at scale model building, either scratch built or from a kit. Maybe your dad or grandpa built one. The value of these varies widely depending on the subject and the quality of the build, but the number of builders whose work is actually worth a large chunk of change is very, very small. The number of prospective buyers for such models is even smaller. 4. It is an extremely rare model that will turn out to have real value, either due to its artistic merit (built by someone who's a recognized master modeler) or historical value (e.g. a genuine prisoner-of-war bone model). Trust me, there are builders who are good (you would probably ooh and aah over their work), and then there are the builders whom those 'good' modelers look up to - the Stradivaris of our art, if you will. Those builders are few and far between, and grandpa probably wasn't one of them. 5. No matter what kind of model you have, the only people who can give you a true estimation of its worth (meaning, what a real person might actually pay) are those who make their living by doing such things, i.e. museum curators or owners of maritime art galleries. What you get from MSW should only be considered an informed opinion. If you do decide to go to a gallery, just let me prepare you well in advance for the shock you will likely experience upon hearing the appraised value of your model. In our hobby, 'valuable' and 'finely crafted' are not necessarily synonymous. Nine times out of ten, mystery models shown at MSW are, sad to say, essentially worthless in terms of monetary value. Some of those models, to be sure, still have sentimental value for their owners, and that is not to be taken lightly. If you have a model like that, then do what you can to preserve it. If, on the other hand, you were hoping you found an overlooked treasure at a boot sale, well, you most likely didn't. Sorry. Cheers!

Agreed. And one reason why mods occasionally have to hit the magic 'edit' button, Also, might I suggest using the search function to search the key words "best kit, " since this topic comes up fairly regularly? I think you will find some opinions on the matter. Good luck!

It's like a building slip from IKEA!

Diorama, maybe? Oarsmen in full regalia, William IV comfortably ensconced on a cushion ...

Schnellbaukasten is German for "quick-build kit." Not sure a how a POB 3-master qualifies as a 'quick build'.

Ah, Revell of Germany. That makes more sense.

Wait -- Revell re-badged a wood kit?

John, it's about 25mm-ish in diameter.

Just catching up on this thread. I'm actually pretty surprised at the asking price listed above for Blue Crab. $2500 seems almost like a "what's wrong with it?" kind of price.

The kit, marvelous as it is, was designed with the novice builder in mind, so there are a number of simplified features. Fortunately, we have a large number of Fly and Pegasus builds on the forum, both in-progress and completed, and these are provide a wealth of upgrade ideas. I also heartily recommend looking at dubz's Syren log, as he is quite good at adding convincing extra details to ships of the same period and similar rate. I, too, have a Fly in progress, although I started in 2006 (!) and haven't touched her in about three years. Too many projects, dontcha know.

That strip was designed to make the deck planking easier for novice builders. The actual ship did not have that feature.