Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[jfhealey]

I'll second everyone else's thoughts on a fully framed Speedwell - or whatever else you decide. It sounds fantastic. I appreciate you have the Winchelsea project to finish first but do you have any thoughts on timescale? Whenever - put my name down for one.

The quarterdeck and fo'csle details on your Winchelsea look superb.

I shall be ordering chapter 8 soon - but where can I find the  planking/carling plans for the q'deck and fo'csle? They don't appear to be in the Winnie downloads section unless I'm being very shortsighted.

Alll the best

Fred

  

[Chuck]

Scroll up….see the other tabs above.  Click on the tab for “general project discussion….etc”

 

Thats where they are in the topic with the monograph chapter downloads.

 

Speedwell is a long way off.  You will know when it gets close because I will start a build log of the prototype.  Until you see that…I wouldnt even think about.  Stay focused on the Winnie which is what I am trying to do.

[jfhealey]

Thank you Chuck - I've got them now: I never knew all that stuff was there! I've been working from the Syren website. 

As to Speedwell: I'll do my best not to think about it....but!

[Matt D]

Chuck, the binnacle is beautiful!  I can’t wait to build it.

 

Speedwell?  I’m 100% in!  It was already on my long term wish list. I’ll definitely buy both books, too.

[Chuck]

Yes I hear you....its tough for me as well.   I have a lot of planning to do on it.  Its just in the very very early stages.  I havent even really decided on the scale yet to be honest.  At 1/4" scale the Speedwell hull is about 20" long.  Quite tiny by comparison to Winnie.   I have even been considering enlarging it more to 3/8 scale...thats how early the planning stages are.   When the time comes I will start another topic for it to get everyone thoughts.   

 

At 3/8" scale it would be just over 30" long and at 1/2" scale a bit over 41".....

 

After building large for the Winnie I am very aware that it may be the first POF for many, and larger would be easier.   But how large....OR is it important to keep it at the traditional 1/4" scale although it may make building it a bit more difficult for some.  Space considerations aside.   Honestly I havent even measured it fully rigged yet.  Maybe Greg can tell us what those measurements are.  In the end I will probably be 1/4" scale.  But my brain does seem to go where it wants to with this stuff.

 

This is indeed the first attempt at the buildboard for Speedwell.  I have some tweaks to it but it will be an upright build.  Without all of that retched scaffolding you typically see on some POF kits.   We will build it in a more traditional way using laser cut parts and learning the tried and true step by step methods.  I believe its the easier way to go actually....than building those crazy boxes.  We shall see...time will tell.   If you start off POF building with all of those crutches and jigs and scaffolding, it will be that much harder to just pick up a set of plans which is not a kit and build it POF.   You will become too reliant and conditioned to look for the "ugly-box".  So learning the ropes so-to-speak is something this project will be all about.  But its very much on my mind too.  

 

I also posted a picture below...from Greg of the Speedwell hawse timbers vs the Pegasus hawse timebrs.  Keep in mind that the Pegasus is much smaller than the Winnie as well and would dwarf the Pegasus hawse timbers.   So that should give you an idea of how large the Speedwell will be at 1/4" scale.  At the dead flat mid ship the hull is 4.75" wide.   Compared to the Winnie at almost 8".

 

 

 

 

Chuck 

[jfhealey]

The level of detail you pack in to 1/4 scale is quite something but just think what you could do with 3/8/or a 1/2.  That said, I guess a lot of Speedwell - if that's what it's going to be - builders will want to sit it alongside their Winchelseas at the same scale. 

[Chuck]

Yes indeed....so still lots of choices to be made.  The Cheerful hull is 18" long at 1/4" scale.   So those who are familiar with it.....it will be only a couple of inches longer.   But the Cheerful is also much wider at mid ship.  Speedwell is a long narrow hull which is quite beautiful. 

[dvm27]

Rigged Speedwell dimensions: length (tip of ensign staff to end of jib boom) - 34". Height - 25 1/2", width - 12" at the main yard. The unrigged hull is 22" in length.

 

Chuck will have many challenges in making her into a kit but it starts with the carvings. That's what attracted me to her initially. If he can have carvings produced of similar quality to Winchelsea then I have no doubt this will be the finest ship model kit ever produced.

 

By the way, for those first time plank on framers, the photo of Pegasus  shown above to compare with Speedwell is my first failed attempt. That's several months work which is basically firewood but that I could not throw away. I believe the system Chuck is designing will prevent failures like this. Now all of you Winchelsea-ites get back to work so Chuck can proceed to the next project!

 

[JeffT]

14 hours ago, Rustyj said:

I already have the Speedwell book and plans and is on my to do so I'm very interested. 

Binnacle looks great too!

 

Me too, both books 😀

[glbarlow]

I’d much much rather see you keep it at ¼ scale. Cheerful is plenty big. 
 

Plus with Cheerful built and hopefully Winnie finished someday I’d much rather have the three ships in the same scale. It would influence my decision. I’m running out of places to put completed models. 
 

That’s my vote anyway. 

[Jim Rogers]

43 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

Rigged Speedwell dimensions: length (tip of ensign staff to end of jib boom) - 34". Height - 25 1/2", width - 12" at the main yard. The unrigged hull is 22" in length.

 

Chuck will have many challenges in making her into a kit but it starts with the carvings. That's what attracted me to her initially. If he can have carvings produced of similar quality to Winchelsea then I have no doubt this will be the finest ship model kit ever produced.

 

By the way, for those first time plank on framers, the photo of Pegasus  shown above to compare with Speedwell is my first failed attempt. That's several months work which is basically firewood but that I could not throw away. I believe the system Chuck is designing will prevent failures like this. Now all of you Winchelsea-ites get back to work so Chuck can proceed to the next project!

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jim Rogers
I believe Chuck said he was trying to get Jack to do the carvings so they should be beautiful.

[Thistle17]

This discussion of a new and more ambitious project seems to be creating quite a stir. Surely there is need for a vaccine or pill to slow what appears to be another spread of unbounded enthusiam or a closet of unfinshed models!

 

Present company included. We are all hopeless!!!!

 

Joe

[scrubbyj427]

I’m also onboard with the 1/4 scale, with the Winnie being my first 1/4 scale I’ve been converted. Will probably never go smaller than that ever again. A big 1/2” scale frigate or something along those lines sure looks tempting sometimes though. But Winnie has proved beyond a doubt that an amazing model can be produced at 1/4.

[Trussben]

1:48 would definitely be my preference in scale and size as any bigger it will take up a lot of room when fully rigged, and I think it’s the perfect choice for a full rig.

And obviously the matching scale with Winchelsea means you could display them next to each other.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Trussben

[Stuntflyer]

Ben, I agree with you. 1:48 is the way to go.

 

Mike

[Jack H]

If it's just a bow section, 1:36 may have better details, but as the full kit of the first POF project, I think 1:48 can be considered because many modelers will put her and winchelea side by side, the same scale is better. Moreover, POF projects are very complex,  smaller projects are undoubtedly a wise choice (they can be developed faster).

 

In addition, if I am lucky enough to cooperate with Chuck one more time, I hope do better than last time.

Edited December 15, 2021 by hjx

[Chuck]

The breastrail....

 

Its pretty straight forward.  All parts are laser cut for you.  But you will still need to prepare them and shape them.  You must do so in the same way you did for the various laser cut columns during this project.  Sand off all the laser char carefully if you dont plan on painting the uprights.  I left them natural which meant they had to be pretty clean.  Use some files, sandpaper and small chisels...or even a #11 blade in my case.   Duplicate the overall shape on the fore and aft sides which was laser cut for you.  Remember to get these clean, although you can paint them black if you wanted to.  I have basically just laser cut and etched the general shape of these uprights and its up to you to finish them with care.  Take you time as the breastrail is a feature element on the model and your eye will be distracted at one that looks sloppy.  

 

The lower rail is a 3/64" thick piece of laser cut boxwood.  It slides onto each upright.  Keep in mind that the angle on the top and bottom of each upright changes as it the rail moves outward from the center.  This is to accommodate for the roundup of the qdeck.  Make sure you position them accordingly.   The more severe angles are toward the outside of the rail.  The center pair of uprights has the least amount of angle.

 

Then glue the lower rail onto all six uprights.  Slide it down from the top...Make sure its seated properly and do a test fit before gluing.  

 

The top rail is actually made in two layers (top of the first photo).   There is a very thin 1/64" thick boxwood layer with square holes cut out of it.  Glue this onto the solid rail.  You will notice its slightly smaller so it leaves a nice lip all around the bottom edge.  Paint both rails black before doing a test fit of all pieces.

 

You should be able to align the top rail in position by inserting the tops of the uprights into the square holes on the underside of the top rail.  This should also force all of the uprights to be perfectly vertical as the laser cut holes are all lined up.  

 

Then test it on the model....it is very very important to center this rail port to starboard.  You can peg each upright into the margin plank at the edge of the qdeck if you like.   Make sure its straight in all directions.   Meaning its vertical when viewed from the side of the hull....and along the edge of the qdeck when viewing it from overhead.

 

You can see how it looks with the uprights left natural.  You can paint the entire rail black if you prefer.   

 

Also note that I constructed the railings around the companionway and made the ladder leading down to the gun deck....just like the one on the gundeck you already made a few chapters back.  I created the stanchions using 1/16" x 1/16" boxwood strips.  I created what I though was a nice fancy profile.  I kept them square in profile except for the center portion and the little ball on top.   They were painted black.  They were chocked in my Dremel and turned to create the rounded areas.  The horizontal rails were cut from 1/32" x 1/32" boxwood strips.   

 

 

You can also choose not to add this railing at all.  Many contemporary models including the one for Winchelsea dont show such a rail.  But I think it adds a nice detail.

 

Any Questions or comments?

 

Next up the fancy rails along the shear caprail!!

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

Excellent! Looking forward to this step!

[Trussben]

Looks gorgeous Chuck.

[jfhealey]

Happy Christmas everyone and best wishes for  a peaceful and healthy New Year. And Chuck - if you can see your way to that fully framed 1/48 Speedwell I have it on my Christmas present list for next year.

Fred

[Chuck]

Merry Christmas to all of you…and yes it is full steam ahead on Speedwell in 1:48

 

Drafting in progress…an hour or two each night while my wife watches her shows.  This is in no way finished but enough to show you what I am shooting for.

 

[JeffT]

Merry Christmas! The Speedwell looks great.

[Jorge Diaz O]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Feliz Navidad a todos ustedes ... y sí, avanza a toda máquina en Speedwell en 1:48

 

Redacción en curso ... una hora o dos cada noche mientras mi esposa ve sus programas. Esto no está terminado de ninguna manera, pero es suficiente para mostrarles lo que estoy buscando.

 

Merry Christmas Mr. Passaro.

[scrubbyj427]

Lookin great Chuck! Merry Christmas 

[JpR62]

A promising new project. No doubt it will be fantastic! Merry Christmas.

[FrankWouts]

I’m in for a POF Speedwell as group project as well! I estimate in 2 years from now with Winnie completed.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

 

 

[Rustyj]

The Winnie looks great and I'm all in on Speedwell! Merry Christmas to you and everyone else!

[Stuntflyer]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:20 PM, Chuck said:

You can also choose not to add this railing at all.  Many contemporary models including the one for Winchelsea dont show such a rail.  But I think it adds a nice detail.

I think it looks great! I really like the shape work on the uprights.

 

Mike

[Chuck]

I spent the last 3 days working on and refining the parts that make up the qdeck rail.  It was quite a journey.   The parts were tweaked to allow a bit of wiggle room when assembling.   This is a very intricate rail but is another major element of the model.  So I took my time and completed the port side without taking many pictures.  I wanted to power through it to establish a good method for building it.  When I repeat the process on the starboard side I will take many more pictures and describe how I did it.   I found the best approach for me was to build the rail in sections or groups which I will explain.  Hopefully I will start the other side by the end f the week.  

 

But here are some final pictures of the completed rail on the port side.  It really does give the ship its elegant shape so typical of these 5th rates in the Royal Navy.   I cant wait to finish the other side to see how it will look.  The rail starts to lean in toward the deck more and more as you approach the stern to match the angle of that last stern frame.  The uprights which become the sides of the ports and the timberheads are extensions of the frames.   You will need to lean these inboard as you work from mid-ship towards the stern....finally adding the top rail which is in two sections.  BUT at the same time these uprights are straight and vertical when viewing the ship from the side profile.   A tricky but rewarding experience.

 

Note the fixed block at the stern against the transom.  The middle rail sits on this.

 

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

Very nice Chuck! What an achievement to produce a model of such extraordinary detail and quality and share it with us! I can’t wait to resume mine.