HMS Surprise kits

[Allison]

I see that Artesania Latina and Mamoli both make an HMS Surprise kit. Other than the scale what are the differences between these two kits in quality, instructions, detail, etc.? 

[juhu]

Shortly:

neither of these resembles any "Surprise" once existing:

 

AL - huge kit that would look great just because of its size, if you have a room for it. If looking as you say for details, what details do you mean? If it does not represent any real ship, we can speak only of factographical errors and AL is really weak when it comes to historical accuracy. Still, finished must be eye catcher.

 

Mamoli - nasty cheat on customers IMHO, nothing more. If you search for Mamoli's model of "Gloire", does not it look like 100% copy of their "Surprise"? I would say so. What is cheaper than to repack the old kit, put there a new, popular name on the box and behold, we have a new kit to sell.

Bottom line: Both kits appeared shortly after famous "Master and Commander" movie, both companies tried to make the best money out of the popular "Suprise" ship, not taking any care for poor modellers wanting an accurate replica. So the kit were produced, were produced as fast as possible and this is the result.

 

If seeking for Surprise, check Jotika's web page. Unfortunatelly, they were never able to finish the kit and probably never will :/

[ccoyle]

Juhu is correct. If you're looking to model HMS Surprise because you like the film or the Aubrey/Maturin novels, then you're in a bit of a quandary. Surprise in the film is played by the real-life HMS Rose; if you look closely and count the gunports, you'll see that HMS Rose is pierced for 24 guns, not the 28 of the fictional Surprise. The real HMS Surprise, upon which the fictional ship is based, began life as a French frigate, L'Unite. After her capture by the British, she was classified as a 28-gun frigate but rearmed with twenty-four 32-lb carronades. So, your options are to either build one of the not-really-HMS Surprise kits (which resemble neither the real Surprise nor HMS Rose, of which there is no kit), scratch build a model based on her admiralty drafts (which do exist), or wait for the Caldercraft kit (which has already been a very, very long wait).

[Allison]

Thanks juhu and ccoyle for the info. I seen from the forum poll that AL and Mamoli both had poor ratings. I had only been considering ships from Model Shipways, Caldercraft and Syren who all had great ratings in all categories but a build log by first time builder Rossi46 got me interested in the HMS Surprise. But I think I'll wait for the Caldercraft version. So now I'm back to figuring out my first build and the Model Shipways Bluenose looks appealing or the Caldercraft HM Brig Supply. Time for more research of build logs and YouTube vids. Thanks guys!

[JeffT]

Deagostini (model space) has a Surprise kit but I can't speak of the quality since I don't have the kit myself.

[mtaylor]

I think the Deagostini kit is based on the AL kit, if I remember correctly.  It might have some modifications though.

[juhu]

8 hours ago, Allison said:

Thanks juhu and ccoyle for the info. I seen from the forum poll that AL and Mamoli both had poor ratings. I had only been considering ships from Model Shipways, Caldercraft and Syren who all had great ratings in all categories but a build log by first time builder Rossi46 got me interested in the HMS Surprise. But I think I'll wait for the Caldercraft version. So now I'm back to figuring out my first build and the Model Shipways Bluenose looks appealing or the Caldercraft HM Brig Supply. Time for more research of build logs and YouTube vids. Thanks guys!

Hi Allison,

just a remark: waiting for Caldercraft's Surprise could mean you will wait forever. Seems they stopped the development of the kit years ago. Remember, Surprise became popular only because of that famous movie - and this is now almost forgotten in the past, hardly can be a selling point for the kit, if finished. Also, Suprise IMHO is not the best looking or interesting ship that one could buy. If you want to stick with Jotika and have some really beautiful Frigate, why not to gof for their Diana? I have never build it, I know it may require considerable skills I do not have, but her lines and overall appearance are outstanding. The best english frigate replica one can buy now possibly.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Nobody ever wants to take a crack at the HMS Polyphemus, lol.  She was an entirely fictional experimental double-ended frigate that Patrick O’Brian made the primary vessel in the second or third novel in his series. Our hero is given her as a command simply because virtually nobody else wants it. It’s sailing qualities are so bizarre it sometimes moves backwards. Still, a good subject for a scratch build in my opinion. 

[uss frolick]

Just to clarify, the fictional Surprise was based on the real ship of the same name, L'Unite, as CCoyle suggests. The ship was real, and Patrick O'Brien had copies of the NMM plans when he wrote his books about her fictional adventures. But the real L' Unite had 12 ports per side on the main deck. Her class carried 22 or 24 long 8-pounders in broadside, in French service, exclusive of the bridle ports. To this, the class added eight 36-pounder brass carronades and/or long 4-pounders to the quarterdeck and forecastle, mounting 30-32 guns in total. The British usually substituted carronades on one or both decks when they became available.

 

Four identical ships of the L'Unite Class were built: L'Unite, L'Republicaine, Tourterelle and Cornellie. They were designed by Pierre Alexandre Forfait . All four were taken or destroyed by the British early in the war, and the plans of the Tourterelle also survive in the NMM. They are just beautiful. I like the looks of Tourterelle much better than the Surprise, and they are less faded. Tourterelle put up one hell of a fight against an 18-pounder British frigate, HMS Lively, before she struck. Tourterelle even used a hot shot furnace that she carried aboard her, but to no avail.

 

Here's a link to the Tourterelle plans at the NMM. Note that they have deck-plans, both as taken, and as fitted, for RN service:

 

 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!csearch;searchTerm=tourterelle

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by uss frolick

[Navis Factorem]

Hi, 

I just came across this post. It explains why I decided to scratch build Surprise.

 6 years ago I had just finished reading Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series and decided to build the ship. I searched for a decent kit to either build or use as a starting point for a kit bash but decided all the kits I could find were inaccurate as they seemed to be based on a model of something else and had serious flaws, right down to the basic hull/deck shape.

So a scratch build it was.

It has been an interesting 6 years, much learning!

Cheers, David 

[Johncal]

Here's my Hms Surprise build. This is extremely accurate for a 1800's period Frigate ship. It started out as an AL kit and was highly customized from there. All my pics and photos are in here along with build diaries.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6bdxcsuty38fhw9/AADZrmMTgMXTJzB6kLSYxJ62a?dl=0

 

 

[Howsa]

Hi guys,

 

I am looking for a second hand unbuilt Artesania HMS Surprise. has anyone know of someone who wqants to part with one?

[DonInAZ]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:36 PM, mtaylor said:

I think the Deagostini kit is based on the AL kit, if I remember correctly.  It might have some modifications though.

I actually phoned Model Space and asked them this very question because it seems quite obvious that what they offer, at more than twice the price, is a re-packaging of the AL kit (perhaps even a Chinese knock-off although I have no evidence to support that and am not making that accusation).  At any rate, try as I might, I could not get anyone to tell me whether or not there were any upgraded components or additional details on the Model Space kit to justify the additional cost.  My takeaway is that the Model Space kit is simply the AL kit and a VERY expensive practicum.  And even that can be downloaded for free on their UK site.

[helge]

On 2/13/2019 at 9:30 PM, ccoyle said:

Juhu is correct. If you're looking to model HMS Surprise because you like the film or the Aubrey/Maturin novels, then you're in a bit of a quandary. Surprise in the film is played by the real-life HMS Rose; if you look closely and count the gunports, you'll see that HMS Rose is pierced for 24 guns, not the 28 of the fictional Surprise. The real HMS Surprise, upon which the fictional ship is based, began life as a French frigate, L'Unite. After her capture by the British, she was classified as a 28-gun frigate but rearmed with twenty-four 32-lb carronades. So, your options are to either build one of the not-really-HMS Surprise kits (which resemble neither the real Surprise nor HMS Rose, of which there is no kit), scratch build a model based on her admiralty drafts (which do exist), or wait for the Caldercraft kit (which has already been a very, very long wait).

 

[helge]

On 2/13/2019 at 9:30 PM, ccoyle said:

Juhu is correct. If you're looking to model HMS Surprise because you like the film or the Aubrey/Maturin novels, then you're in a bit of a quandary. Surprise in the film is played by the real-life HMS Rose; if you look closely and count the gunports, you'll see that HMS Rose is pierced for 24 guns, not the 28 of the fictional Surprise. The real HMS Surprise, upon which the fictional ship is based, began life as a French frigate, L'Unite. After her capture by the British, she was classified as a 28-gun frigate but rearmed with twenty-four 32-lb carronades. So, your options are to either build one of the not-really-HMS Surprise kits (which resemble neither the real Surprise nor HMS Rose, of which there is no kit), scratch build a model based on her admiralty drafts (which do exist), or wait for the Caldercraft kit (which has already been a very, very long wait).

 

[helge]

hi,just read your post,I called caldercraft/jotika and they said that the hms surprise kit will be relesaed in the end of this year.

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, helge said:

they said that the hms surprise kit will be relesaed in the end of this year

I'm sure there are a great many modelers around here who sincerely hope that this will be so.

[Mike_H]

On 3/3/2020 at 2:52 PM, helge said:

hi,just read your post,I called caldercraft/jotika and they said that the hms surprise kit will be relesaed in the end of this year.

I called them a couple of weeks ago - apparently Covid has got in the way - both because they had to shut down during lockdown and now because they are overwhelmed with orders.  So ordered a Snake to learn some more, before doing a full-scale frigate

[glbarlow]

The HMS Surprise prototype has been shown on their website as coming soon for over 5 years. They’ve not made a single update to that website in all that time. Years ago I sent an inquiry and got a similar response. I will be surprised if the Surprise is ever released, but we can all hope. 

[ratskiss]

I am building the AL Surprise just now. It is a monster 1,300 mm long but very pretty. The AL kit has scale problems with a lot of its parts, for example the capstan. If you had 1/48 scale figures the bars would be way over the crews heads. I like to think I'm building the "book" version of the Surprise which over the twenty books was changed and repaired many times. This way I can use my imagination, I added the six carronades as Aubrey did and built the captains quarters with a violin and cello. I think the fun part is the build and your friends enjoying the finished product. The ship came from Patrick O'Brians imagination so know one really knows what it looked like, though most ships followed a standard design, the kit is wood and wood may be shaped how you see fit. Just as the captains did when they did not like something in a new ship they were assigned.

[Thunder]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:05 PM, glbarlow said:

The HMS Surprise prototype has been shown on their website as coming soon for over 5 years. They’ve not made a single update to that website in all that time. Years ago I sent an inquiry and got a similar response. I will be surprised if the Surprise is ever released, but we can all hope. 

 

There kit has been on hold for over ten years, film came out in 2003 and they started development shortly after.

 

"The ship came from Patrick O'Brians imagination so know one really knows what it looked like," 

 

Not really so as was based on a real ship:

 

https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/plan-of-hms-surprise-1796-lines-and-profile-j5948?_pos=9&_sid=bca6752cf&_ss=r

 

 

[ratskiss]

"Not really so as was based on a real ship:" True but it was a ship that was repaired and altered through out the 20 books. It was fictional ship.

 

[ringleheim]

I find the recent Caldercraft claim that Surprise will be released by the end of the year to be comical, and insulting to their customer base.

 

They have not updated their website in, quite literally, a decade.  I have no idea what's going on with that company, but they don't seem to be interested in developing new kits.

 

 

[Thunder]

The answer to that might be that the designer left them and they no longer have anyone that can finish it.

[chris watton]

I did design a 72nd Surprise 15 years ago, but was never released (This was for Amati). It is a shame, as it was to be quite detailed.

[Swede]

Do not tease us like that, Chris. Seeing the "what might have been" makes it difficult to concentrate on the project in front of me.  

[BenD]

Chris... now we might just have to beg you to make it.  How could Amati pass this up...

[Beef Wellington]

On 12/13/2020 at 4:25 AM, chris watton said:

I did design a 72nd Surprise 15 years ago, but was never released (This was for Amati). It is a shame, as it was to be quite detailed.

 

Chris - I'm assuming that even though Amati have not released this, they still own the rights to your design so you could not release under Vanguard?

[chris watton]

16 hours ago, Beef Wellington said:

Chris - I'm assuming that even though Amati have not released this, they still own the rights to your design so you could not release under Vanguard?

Yes, what I designed is Amati's. If I wanted to develop another, it would have to be from scratch.

 

But then again, I would not want to 'exhume' a 15 year old design...

Edited January 2, 2021 by chris watton

[Sailor1234567890]

Too bad Chris, I'd love to get my hands on your 1:64 Cutty Sark kit that died in the planning stage as well.