chris watton Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share #241 Posted July 15, 2019 OK, coppering finished (will post pics later this week) and hull masked and black paint applied to the main wale and prow. I do not want to paint the hull too much as I like the 'warmth' of the natural wood when varnished. I have been thinking a lot about the rabet's for future kits, and how best to implement them. I never really look at other kits, I never have. What I have found over the past couple of weeks is that kits with rabet's always are of the single planked variety, and not double planked, which confounds the issue slightly. Personally, I do not like single planked hulls because the bulkheads/frames are sometimes too far apart, meaning the planking in between the frames can have gaps if the planks are not pre-bent to perfection. I see 'proper' framed models, with framing very close together that does have the proper thickness of single planking. This works, I think, because the very close spacing of the frames act like the first layer of planking as seen on commercial double planked kits. Anyway, I digress, back to the rabet's. I have thought about the possibilities of having the main false keel, say, 6mm thick. Then, adding a 3mm thick pre-cut strip running the whole length of the keel, from the prow to the upper stern area. Then having the exposed keel, prow and stern post back in 6mm thickness wood. A jig would have to be included to ensure the 3mm keel is equidistant when attached to the 6mm keel. The trouble is, because it will be double planked, the slot needs to be quite wide, and wider in some areas than others. This is because I cannot just add up the thicknesses of the 1.5 and 1mm planking and use that. The front planking terminates at an angle, so the end of the planks will be angled, making the thickness a lot more than either 1.5 or 1mm. Anyway, this is the area I have been thinking about, trying to make it work for double planked kits... coxswain, BenD, Jim Rogers and 1 other 4 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted July 15, 2019 Share #242 Posted July 15, 2019 I think that invariably the model-maker will have to end up fairing the rabbet at the forefoot because of the geometry involved in producing a kit at reasonable cost. If you can solve that problem, Chris, you will be a genius! Edwardkenway, mtaylor, Canute and 1 other 4 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share #243 Posted July 17, 2019 My Master Korabel shipment finally arrived and now available on my website. I have the ship kits and blocks and deadeyes up at the moment, but still need to add the sail sets and the small ship's boats kits. Kits: https://vanguardmodels.com/mk-kits Pear wood blocks and deadeyes: https://vanguardmodels.com/blocks-2 Speedy's looking pretty cool, building so far has been a painless pleasure. Will take some update pics soon, just waiting for my black spray paint to arrive.. mtaylor, BenD, Canute and 4 others 7 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rogers Posted July 17, 2019 Share #244 Posted July 17, 2019 Chris when I try to link to the blocks your site says it is password protected and asks for a password. Canute and mtaylor 2 Regards, Jim Rogers Damn the Torpedoes , Full speed ahead. Adm David Farragut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share #245 Posted July 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, Jim Rogers said: Chris when I try to link to the blocks your site says it is password protected and asks for a password. It should work now Spyglass usually sorts out everything on the site, so I am still very much a learner... mtaylor and Canute 2 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Diaz O Posted July 17, 2019 Share #246 Posted July 17, 2019 Hello, I use google translator. Please when I make figures to 1/35 I would pray to be the first to buy them. I need for my HMS Pegasus. Thank you. Roger Pellett and Canute 2 -HMS Tritón 1/48 1773 en scracht (TERMINADO) -HMS Winchelsea 1/35 1764 full scracht (EN PROYECTO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share #247 Posted July 20, 2019 OK, I have been working on the Speedy prototype. All has gone well. I think the most fiddly area was the headrails. As I mentioned, because I didn't want the 'V' rails to look too oversize, I did them in 0.6mm photo etch, they are pushed and glued into the slots in the prow and then bent up. The headrail is then fixed in place and then the 'V' rails bent down to the headrail position and glued in place. The scale size is worth the extra bit of fiddling, I feel. Have added some pics showing the designs of the upper rail, with the swivel gun pillars integrated with the rail, so they can be painted before adding to the hull, with the top edge of the swivel gun pillars resting against the gunwale, so the distance from the gunwale to the upper rail remains constant. This worked out better than I hoped, and was really easy to fix into position (never know fully how some things will look until I try them for the first time..) The other pics are where I am up to now. They are a little rough as further touching up and varnishing is still to be done. I have just removed the masking tape from the deck. JeffT, ccoyle, egkb and 24 others 27 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted July 20, 2019 Share #248 Posted July 20, 2019 Looking very cool, and that laser-engraved deck really looks the part. Canute, mtaylor and chris watton 3 SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Harpy - 1796 (production prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcpwilk Posted July 22, 2019 Share #249 Posted July 22, 2019 This looks superb. However shouldn't the hull be clinker not carvel planked and shouldn't the top row of copper plates be parallel to the waterline? Having done a cutter in 1/48 I am hoping to do Alert in 1/32, but would go for one in 1/48 if available as a kit. Mike Canute and chris watton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share #250 Posted July 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, mcpwilk said: This looks superb. However shouldn't the hull be clinker not carvel planked and shouldn't the top row of copper plates be parallel to the waterline? Having done a cutter in 1/48 I am hoping to do Alert in 1/32, but would go for one in 1/48 if available as a kit. Mike The hull is definitely NOT clinker, it is not a cutter. It has cutter-like lines, but it is actually a 'Brig-Sloop', one of the first of this type. Or are you confusing the Alert with the Speedy? If you are referring to Alert, I decided not to show the hull clinker planed as this is very difficult to do well for most people. If someone who has experience in such planking feels comfortable laying the planking clinker style, they can. I notice a lot of people are under the assumption that the waterline level of copper plates were parallel to the waterline. In some cases, this is true, they were, but usually on much later vessels. At least, from what I have seen. I know the Mercury (Victory Models Russian brig) had the plates parallel to the waterline, but that is early 19th Century, not the last quarter of the 18th Century. But again, there is nothing stopping the modeller coppering the hull however they wish. dvm27, Jörgen, Canute and 8 others 11 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share #251 Posted July 24, 2019 Just had news that Lord Nelson cast resin figures are on their way, should be arriving on Monday, in 64th and 72nd scale Edwardkenway, paulsutcliffe, Canute and 2 others 5 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandpaPhil Posted July 24, 2019 Share #252 Posted July 24, 2019 Awesome! chris watton, mtaylor and Canute 3 Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Johnson Posted July 24, 2019 Share #253 Posted July 24, 2019 Chris, You have to start thinking 1/48th scale with those figures too. You’d make a lot of people happy. Kurt Bob Portsmouth, paulsutcliffe, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Member: Ship Model Society of New Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share #254 Posted July 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Kurt Johnson said: Chris, You have to start thinking 1/48th scale with those figures too. You’d make a lot of people happy. Kurt I will at some point. I cannot right now though, as I am still licking the wounds from the invoice I just paid for the figures (Nelson in 2 scales) and the production resin cast 4 pounder and half pounder cannon for Speedy - plus some HMS Bristol stuff.. Cannons are great though, I measured them with my digital Vernier, comparing them to my raw CAD drawings and they seem to have no shrinkage whatsoever, so fit all parts they are designed to fit perfectly.. druxey, Morgan, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Johnson Posted July 24, 2019 Share #255 Posted July 24, 2019 Chris, I am aware of the restrictions involved in starting a business on your own. What I should have said was when the time arrives when it is both financially and physically feasible to pursue offering 1/48th scale figures that you do so, as there is a definite void to be filled in that area. I realize there are a great many goals to be met first that are WAY more important. Kurt mtaylor, Rustyj, JpR62 and 3 others 6 Member: Ship Model Society of New Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowneck Posted July 25, 2019 Share #256 Posted July 25, 2019 Hello Chris, and other MSWer's: My Alert kit arrived today, safe n' sound. No U.S. Customs disasters. Good timing too! It's great to see so many MSWer's on this Vanguard/Watton thread, and the various logs and references on this unique ship. I have just completed a five month project for a Victorian 3-story dollhouse (1" = 1 ft. scale) that will be delivered to my 7-yo granddaughter this weekend. Phew! I'll soon dive into your Alert box and, once again, get really excited about building one of your kits. This is going to be fun - again. All the contents in the box look excellent, including your hefty "Build Manual." After a few thoughts, I've decided to build Alert similar to my last model project ( HMS Swan - aka "Pegasus" - your design for Amati/Victory). I plan to place Alert in a similar diorama setting - another waterline build - underway with her full suit of sails. I intend to make my own paper/silkspan sails per the techniques I outlined in my recent NRG article on the Swan. Similar to Swan, I'll also portray her in-situ, but in the shallow waters off Trinidad (more turquoise than blue). I'll do my normal modifications/additions minus the wood upgrades I've had to do in the past since you've included very nice hardwoods. Since I'm "water lining" her, I'll not bother with clinker authenticity since so little of her exposed hull will be noticeable. And she will be wearing her full make-up - decorations - bulwarks and stern. I've already figured-out the sound track during my build as well as her completed display: a digital music stream to a small and adjacent Bose wi-fi speaker. Now, all I have to do is search and find 1/64-scale figures playing steel drums for my Caribbean diorama.🤨 Anyone here have any suggestions where to start? Cheers, Ron Ryland Craze, Rustyj, chris watton and 2 others 5 Ron Director, Nautical Research Guild Secretary/Newsletter Editor, Philadelphia Ship Model Society Former Member/Secretary for the Connecticut Marine Model Society Current Build: Grace & Peace (Wyoming, 6-masted Schooner) Completed Builds: HMS Grecian, HMS Sphinx (as HMS Camilla) Ongakuka Maru, (Higaki Kaisen, It Takes A Village), Le Tigre Privateer, HMS Swan, HMS Godspeed, HMS Ardent, HMS Diana, Russian brig Mercury, Elizabethan Warship Revenge, Xebec Syf'Allah, USF Confederacy, HMS Granado, USS Brig Syren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share #257 Posted July 25, 2019 I have done almost all I can for now, as I am still waiting for a missing 0.4mm photo etched brass sheet, which was missing with the main shipment. This contains a lot of parts, including deadeye strops and chain plates, hand pump detail etc. I have brush varnished the outer planking, but am waiting to spray varnish the rest of the hull once everything is in place and touched up. All deck fittings are not yet glued in place, so alignment may look a little off.. The only parts glued are the inner bulwark eyebolts and cleats. I have added a few spare wheels and axles for the 4-pounder gun carriages on the cut file, as they are rather small and easily lost. On one of the pics, I have placed the Bristol's 24-pounder barrel on the deck for size comparison with the tiny 4-pounders. I know that Cochrane asked for (and was granted) a 12-pounder gun to add to Speedy's arsenal, but it turned out the gun ports were too small to accommodate. I also know that not every swivel gun post was populated, but figured if I didn't do this, some may think I was being cheap.. Chuck, Jorge Diaz O, Edwardkenway and 24 others 27 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share #258 Posted July 28, 2019 Just had some pics of the painted Nelson figure, should arrive tomorrow (not the painted one, though...) Beef Wellington, Landrotten Highlander, BenD and 22 others 25 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenD Posted July 28, 2019 Share #259 Posted July 28, 2019 chris watton, mtaylor and Canute 3 Ropes of Scale.com - Rope and cable for the scale modeler. Finished builds: HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft - 1:64 - 9th century longship - Falkonet - 1:72 Current builds: HMS Snake - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Tender Avos by BenD - Master Korabel - 1:72 - 19th Century Four-Oared Yawl by BenD - Falkonet - 1:24 scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimvanlan99 Posted July 28, 2019 Share #260 Posted July 28, 2019 Chris, this figure looks REALLY good. Both the figure and the painting are excellent. Jim Canute, mtaylor, chris watton and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vane Posted July 28, 2019 Share #261 Posted July 28, 2019 I am really impressed by these kits and you seem to be quite inventive with new solutions making things much easier for the model builder. I definitely want to support you and a kit from Vanguard is moving up on my priority list. Unfortunately i got already my hands full but hope to order from you in the future. Alert, Speedy and Bristol seem to be great additions for us who like the "Nelsons era" in 1:64. pythagoras, Canute, chris watton and 2 others 5 Current builds: HMS Victory (Corel 1:98), HMS Snake (Caldercraft 1:64), HMBV Granado (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Diana (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Speedy (Vanguard Models 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share #262 Posted July 28, 2019 Cheers guys Have had very bad sciatica all weekend (No idea where that came from)!, no fun, but have kept working (drugged up to the eyeballs on painkillers and anti inflammatory tablets ..) I am designing the hull, decks and stern fascia for my third kit. I needed to do this because I need a perfect template for the stern (and figurehead, in order for the digital carver to make the parts the perfect size for fit - but it means I need to design the whole hull structure to get this part, and know it will fit perfectly. paulsutcliffe, Wacom, Canute and 2 others 5 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtvd19 Posted July 28, 2019 Share #263 Posted July 28, 2019 Chris: Nerve pain can be real bad and the drugs are absolutely necessary. Please double check all your work once you are off of them as errors can creep in (ask me how I know...) - we don't want your kit to be mistaken for the typical kits that I swear were designed by people on some very serious drugs...🤐 Hope you feel better soon. Kurt mtaylor, paulsutcliffe, Rustyj and 7 others 10 Kurt Van Dahm Director NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD www.thenrg.org SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS CLUBS Nautical Research & Model Ship Society of Chicago Midwest Model Shipwrights North Shore Deadeyes The Society of Model Shipwrights Butch O'Hare - IPMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsutcliffe Posted July 28, 2019 Share #264 Posted July 28, 2019 I have found wine has the same affect and I have to do things again the next day after a couple of glasses chris watton, mtaylor and Canute 3 The clerk of the cheque's yacht of sheerness Current build HMS Sirius (1797) 1:48 scratch POF from NMM plans HMS Winchelsea by chuck 1:48 Cutter cheerful by chuck 1:48 Previous builds- Elidir - Thames steam barge Cutty Sark-Billings boats Wasa - billings boats Among others 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted July 28, 2019 Share #265 Posted July 28, 2019 Nelson looks absolutely amazing Chris!! By the way is your Cochrane the same Cochrane who helped liberate Chile from Spanish rule? mtaylor, Canute and chris watton 3 Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share #266 Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said: Nelson looks absolutely amazing Chris!! By the way is your Cochrane the same Cochrane who helped liberate Chile from Spanish rule? Thank you. I am lucky to have found a decent digital carver, so I can change the scale of these pieces. The painting was done by a professional, but worth it I think, as they will be a great guide to painting. Regarding Cochrane, yes, the exact same amazing man. I bought this book and have read it twice over, highly recommended,his life was more action packed than most fictional characters : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cochrane-Dauntless-Adventures-Admiral-1775-1860/dp/0747585458/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WFJXJ9X96PWE&keywords=cochrane+the+dauntless&qid=1564340749&s=gateway&sprefix=cochrane%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1 It was this book that introduced me to the Speedy, I just had to do it! Edited July 28, 2019 by chris watton DelF, Edwardkenway, Wacom and 6 others 9 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted July 28, 2019 Share #267 Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) Yes Speedy is a beautiful brig, I think I can just about hang on til you release her! Your test build is looking very fine. Thanks for the book recommendation l shall get on Amazon for it. Edited July 28, 2019 by Edwardkenway chris watton, mtaylor and Canute 3 Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share #268 Posted August 3, 2019 Hi, I do have the Lord Nelson figures in stock, 50 each in 1:64 (£12.50) and 72nd (£12.00). However, my website is not good at adding new stuff, so it will change to a platform that is more product based. If you want a figure, please PM me - not much more I can do until my website is sorted. On a different note, I have been studying my plans for Indefatigable. It seems the full hull and stern detail is only shown on this particular variant of the Ardent Class. I note the number of lower stern windows is seven (I know there is a later Ardent Class with eight, but not the 1764 class). As this is (apparently) the only contemporary set of plans for the class showing the stern in detail, would it be safe to assume that Agamemnon would also have seven and not eight windows? I ask because one day, I would like to have another go at Egg's 'N' Bacon, but in her as launched form and a lot more internal detail. (Once I have the lines done for Indefatigable and before I chop the bulkheads down, I have the lines for the Ardent Class) Edwardkenway, marktiedens, Beef Wellington and 11 others 14 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted August 3, 2019 Share #269 Posted August 3, 2019 2 hours ago, chris watton said: ... the only contemporary set of plans for the class showing the stern in detail Hello Chris, I certainly don't want to second-guess what research you have already done but this stern view of Aggie was painted in 1810. The artist was Nicholas Pocock, highly regarded as a researcher with a reputation for fidelity and detail. The painting depicts Aggie in June 1796. HTH Bruce Canute, druxey, hollowneck and 2 others 5 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share #270 Posted August 3, 2019 Cheers Bruce. No second guessing. The JPEG I posted is from a copy of the original Admiralty plans for Indefatigable, a 64 of the same class as Agamemnon (and only two years apart, launch-wise). The first Agamemnon I did I included 8 windows at the stern, as many paintings show this, but the actual Admiralty drawings show 7, albeit for the Indie. It is only on the Indie plans we get to see the stern of the Ardent class - but was this a one off, or the same for all. This is what I am trying to work out. mtaylor and ErnieL 2 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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