how to work with teeny blocks???

[achuck49]

I am nearly finished with the Dominica from Amati and have run into a 'painful' process that is common to all of the models that I have worked on.  How to wrap cord/string/thread around blocks that are as small as shown in the attached photo.

 

 I have put pins in them and attached to cork boards, but when it comes time to place thread around the outside, into the grooves, the thread will move off the block, or the block will twist in circles.  Placing it between my fingers is the only solution that I have come up with.  However, this is not a great way to do it either.  They are so small that I cannot see it when trying to capture with thread.  When I finally get it right, I end up dumping glue all over myself and this often removes the thread when I separate my fingers.

 

I have tried tieing loops and any other methods that I can think of to no avail.

 

any ideas will be so welcomed.

 

Chuck

[robnbill]

I have found that if I place a tiny amount of CA in the groove it holds the thread in place. I either loop the thread around the block then apply the ca or I touch the CA to the groove then put the thread in it.

[cwboland]

Hi Chuck,

Have you tried using a pair of normally closed (ie. pinch to open) tweezers? They may hold the blocks long enough and with enough pressure to complete the task at hand.

[amateur]

A cloathing pin in a vice does the trick for me.

Put the rope around the block, and put in the pin, such that the rope is held in place. Tie theknot, put someglue onit, and you're ready for the next.

It even works with blocks that are smaller.

 

Jan

Edited December 27, 2014 by amateur

[mtaylor]

Chuck,

 

I use one of these:  http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MZ101   I have a clip that I've filed the teeth off of and filled the inner (curved) with some scrap balsa to help as the jaws often misalign with tiny parts.

[hornet]

Get yourself a cheap fly tying vice - used for making flys in flyfishing. There are lots available on EBay. It will grip any block (or any other part for that matter) firmly and allow you both hands free to work. For really small blocks use in combination with a magnifier on a stand.

 

Edited December 27, 2014 by hornet

[dafi]

I use old broken Drills to hold them :-)

 

 

                                          #374                         

 

XXXDAn

Edited December 27, 2014 by dafi

[achuck49]

super fast responses!

 

I have tried the clips, and vises with out much luck.  However, I have not tried them by first putting some CA into the small grooves first.

 

I am going to try to blend the given ideas with the CA in the grooves.

 

Thanks so much

 

Chuck ... wanting to just finish, learn and try again

[Dan Vadas]

First I clamp the block in my vise. I use tweezers to hold the block while I tighten the clamp. Then I brush a liberal amount of diluted PVA around the groove and also dampen the line with it  - this helps hold the line in place. Then I loop the line around the block and tie an overhand knot in the line, brush on a bit more PVA if needed, and pull it tight and adjust it so it hangs realistically. Then I clean up any excess glue with a Q-tip. Finally I snip the tail off after the glue has dried.

 

  Danny

[achuck49]

This site is full of great people.

 

Progress is better...I found an alligator clip which I placed into a vise.  I then put some glue on the string and quickly wrap it around the block.  This works 'most' of the time.  The string sometimes is slightly off the groove on the back side of the block.  I then get it in place and tie it off.  This reduces the time from 8 to 2 minutes per block.  I believe that a major part of the problem is the thread that I am using is synthetic instead of natural.  I studied the pictures that were sent and noticed that a more natural thread was used in all of the illustrations.  Lesson learned.

 

I will finish this model (not at all happy with the results) and give it to some very young nephews who think that I am a true master.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

[robnbill]

To handle the CA take a brass wire and insert it into a dowel. Then form a small ring in the end of it. Put a drop of CA on a piece of parchment paper or some other surface it will not soak in on. Then take your block wrap the line tightly around it and hold the two loose ends between your fingers. With the other hand dip the ring in the ca and touch it to the rigging on the side of the block. Use thin CA and it will immediately adhere to the line and block. The tool allows you to contro, the amount of CA you apply. This is what i found works for me.

[robnbill]

Over time the tool becomes coated with the CA. Whe. This happens cut the end off and form a new ring. You can keep doing this until it becomes too short then replace the wire with a new one.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I use the Constrictor Knot in these situations. Its a very simple, very compact, very strong knot perfect for seizing. Here is a tutorial I put up a while back on the most simple method of tying this great useful knot: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4029-the-constrictor-knot/?hl=constrictor

Tie the constrictor ahead of time in the small stuff you are using for the seizing, don't pull the knot tight yet, leave the loops wide open. Pass a bight of the heavier thread you are using for the blocks strop THROUGH the Constrictor Knots loop and then over and around your tiny little block. As mentioned above, clip your block into the holding contraption of your choice.

Pull the two ends of the Constrictor Knot tight. The knot will Constrict and from now on it will behave like a collar that will NOT loosen, you can take your hands off it and it stays put. Pull the two ends of your stropping material apart and work the Constrictor Knot down snug against your tiny little block.

The beauty of the Constrictor Knot is that it will HOLD when you tighten it. You can tug and pull it to manipulate it where you want it to go. You can use the two leftover long ends to put more turns on your throat seizing or you can just cut the ends short.

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

I make jig for rigging works with blocks, jards and masts.

Thanks to the a rope tensioning springs installed is  easy to work with ropes

and their attachment to the blocks.

Tadeusz

 

[normanh]

I simply make a loop with a granny knot the pinch the loop and block between my finger and thumb in my left hand the pull one of the tails tight and tie off a second granny knot and secure with the smallest dabs of SG. Works for me down to 2mm blocks and have done so with a good few of them.N

 

Norman

[Modeler12]

Here is another way to use a clamp or hemostats to hold the block while attaching a line around it. The video is primarily intended to show what seizings are all about but it also shows how I hold the block. I have five of these clamps (some with a curved end) and have adjusted the gap by carefully bending one of the handles using a vise. That way I can clamp parts of various thicknesses. Shop around and you can find them at lots of different places for a couple dollars each.

 

[AlexAl]

I should admit it is a big challenge, such tiny details are really difficult to deal with, for now my first models are not full of teeny blocks, but step by step I will full them with all such stuff. Hope to succeed in this challenge!

[jwvolz]

Another thing to consider is most smaller blocks need the groove for the strop filed deeper. It takes a little time but I tidy up very block this way, as well as reaming out the sheave hole . 

[jbshan]

I like the fly tying vise, might get one of those.

A friend set me up with needle nose tweezers mounted to a third-hand work stand.  Clamp the block in there and position where you can get to everything.  Radio Shack has small all-copper alligator clips.  Pass the line around the block to where both ends come out towards you.  Apply the alligator clip, pulling the two ends up tight.  Using thin line (thread) between the clip and block tie a series of half hitches around the pair of 'tails' until they are secure (usually four hitches suffice).  Put a drop of glue on (please not CA)  and you can take the clip off.  Combine that with whatever sort of thimble, hook, pendant, tackle you need and you should be good to go.

 

This is about a 1/8" block, I have done down to 3mm.

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by jbshan

[foxy]

Nice work and very good detail in tying the knot.
 
In 1/100 scale it would be a little more difficult with fine thread don't you think.
 
I CA the groove and lay thread over till dry then wind round thread and tie/ seize ether loop or long length.








foxy

[achuck49]

The wisdom on this site stuns me.  When I finish two boats in bottles I will get back to something larger and try these techniques out.

 

Thanks

[MM2CVS9]

What a wonderful thread. I've been struggling with my 3mm blocks, but now am seeing nice results using ideas posted here. Thank you everyone.

 

EJ

[MM2CVS9]

Still struggling with those blocks, but finally found an appropriate fly tying vise.

 

Tried to post a pic but the site won't allow me to. I use photobucket.

 

EJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a huge help.

[MM2CVS9]

Figured it out.

 

Man, this thing is a lifesaver. Thanks for the great idea.

[CharlieZardoz]

Would love to see some pics of Dominica when you're done with her.

[RichardG]

Still struggling with those blocks, but finally found an appropriate fly tying vise.

 

Tried to post a pic but the site won't allow me to. I use photobucket.

 

EJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a huge help.

 

EJ, do you have a link where to buy the vise?

 

Thanks,

Richard

[MM2CVS9]

I ordered mine through Amazon. It is a Superior brand fly tying vise, model #2A, from Griffin Enterprises Co, Kalispell Montana. www.griffinenterprisesinc.com

they have several models, but I liked the narrow nose on this one.

 

EJ

[normanh]

I might be different as I only work with my fingers sizing  off blocks even down to 2mm, generally using a couple of granny knots to lock the thread around the block , a dab of SG with one tail cut away or if sizing to a spar I tie off around the spar again with a couple of granny knots. In 3 build its worked well with only the odd failure which is simply replaced. I cant get used to clips clamps etc fingers work for me even though my joints are getting old and worn these days.

 

Norman

[src]

So I have been using Moddelr12's method (previous page) for the last couple of months and am having a problem with the stropping holding. I first used CA and found the rope became brittle so I tried GS Hypo and then moved to diluted PVA 50/50%. My last several attempts I have coated the block with glue, stropped the block then applied more dilute PVA, let it soak in for a couple of minutes and then soaked up the remainder with a Q-tip. I am having about a 30% failure rate, the strop just pulls out when I tighten up the line. I dont know if I am just trying to pull the line too tight, not enough glue or what. Pretty frustrated at the moment.

Thoughts anybody?

Sam

[GuntherMT]

I put together a bit of mini-tutorial showing how I strop blocks in my build log in this post:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8085-armed-virginia-sloop-by-gunthermt-model-shipways-scale-148/page-24#entry328294

 

Not sure if it will help you any more than all the information already in this thread though.