Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Jorge Diaz O]

On 13/7/2021 at 0:53, bdgiantman2 said:

Hola Jim, he estado siguiendo una versión en la que este tipo en Europa está construyendo una sección del casco de un barco de 74 cañones que muestra la disposición de los cañones y los accesorios. Tiene tacos para cada uno de los cañones de la cubierta inferior integrados en las vigas de la cubierta superior. Aquí está el enlace a su blog que muestra las obras internas.

 

 

Hello, that work is impressive but it must be borne in mind that it is on a French ship that has many differences with English ones, similar but different.In English ships, the rings that support the recoil lines do not have that outer bolt in sight , the French yes.

[Chuck]

Glenn,,

 

Nope,  i may provide some sort of plan for a base but each person will have to make their own.  This will be a great opportunity for folks to design and create something that sets the whole display apart from others.

[Chuck]

I realize I havent posted an update in a while but I am actually pretty far along.  Just been swamped over the last few weeks.  In fact, the store is now closed until this Sunday because this is the toughest week so far.  Leaving for the Philly "ShipModelCon" on Thursday for some some rest and will resume normal daily function next week.

 

Having said that...the Winnie is quite far along.  Chapter 8 s almost finished.  The only thing that remains to be done are the carlings and ledges for the deck framing.  I may actually do that today and relax while working on the model.

 

I have many many construction photos for the monograph chapter but here are some pics of how she looks today minus those carlings and ledges.

 

Its really coming together now.  Notice how the cat tails under the deck framing have inserted.  The catheads will be added in two pieces to make it a bit easier.   The riding bitts are painted red but you could leave them natural or paint them black as well.  I will post more pics upon my return from Battle Ship New Jersey....where ModelCon will be held.  I will be displaying the Winnie along with several other models I have completed.  I hear there will be over 100 models displayed and the weather looks great for Saturday.  Maybe I will see you there.

 

[Gregory]

Does the ship just rest in those pedestals, or are they fastened in some manner?

[Chuck]

It just sits in there.  Its really quite sturdy.  No wiggle at all.  No reason to permanently fix it now as I do remove it  from the finished base to work on it.  I place it in the work base when I work on her.  I dont want to damage the fancy finished base.

[Thistle17]

In just one word..."striking"!!!!!!

Joe

[JpR62]

Always so beautiful!

[glbarlow]

Really beautiful work, just amazing.  You’ll be the hit of the show!

 

I see mini-you is taking a nap there on the base, fitting I’m sure. 🤣

Edited August 4, 2021 by glbarlow

[Suzdal]

Is there any way to get information on Modelcon without having to connect to Facebook. I'd be very interested in finding out as much as possible about Modelcon without having Facebook put cookies on my computer. 

 

Richard

 

Edited on Wednesday, 4 August 2021 at 19:46 (GMT + 2) à Blainville s/mer, Normandy, France;
   sent later.

[Chuck]

Its in Philadelphia....actually Camden NJ on the Battleship New Jersey.  Seeing as you are in France that would be a long trip.  There is an entire topic about it however.  Its been there for quite some time actually.

 

 

 

[Chuck]

Just a quick update.  This completes Chapter 8.   The carlings and ledges were added to the deck framing.  There are mostly carlings which run fore and aft between the beams defining the hatch coamings and companionways.  1/8" x 1/8" cedar strips were used.  The long strip was painted red on the sides and bottom like the beams.  Then small lengths were cut and fitted according to the provided templates.  

 

Normally you see these morticed into the beams.  Yes....you can do that if you like.  But as long as they are glued in well and secure that is a lot of work to only be covered completely with deck planking.   I just cut them neatly to fit.   The two ledges on the forecastle were done using 3/32" x 3/32" strips.  In addition, the mizzen mast partner was added which is laser cut for you.

 

We are now 2/3rds of the way through this project.  There will be four more chapters in order to complete the model (not including the barge).  Here is a breakdown of what those last four chapters will entail.

 

chapt 9 - Plank the fcastle and qdeck and remaining bulwarks.  Add the cap rail.   All the remaining coamings and gratings.  A few other minor fittings.

 

Chap 10 - All remaining deck fittings.....  The waist will be started as well with the gangways and stairs.

 

Chap 11 - Return outboard to add the channels and deadeyes....fenders and swivel stocks.  The fancy rails along the sheer of the qdeck and fcastle.  

 

Chapter 12 - Add the 8 pounder guns.   The headrails.  The stern lantern and other remaining fittings.

 

That finishes the hull and then a separate barge will be made so it can be placed on spare topmasts along the waist.

 

Here is a look at the hull with the planking templates (already uploaded here for you).   I will start the next chapter with the margin planks and move on from there.  Think about how much easier the planking will be this time.  The templates are done for you and lining off the hull will be simple.  You just have to fold the templates along the deck beams and use them as a ready-made tick strip.  Easy-Peasy.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rustyj]

Simply stunning workmanship Chuck. 

[scrubbyj427]

Wow! This this is art and setting the bar extremely high!

[Chuck]

If you recall I didn't take any construction photos of the stove the first time around so I had to build another one.  This will allow me to complete the 8th chapter.

 

Step1....Assemble the four 1/8" cedar pieces that will become the foundation for the stove.  Note the bottom "B" in the photo.  The two larger pieces are glued to each side of "B" so the ends are flush.  The final smaller piece is glued to what will be the aft end of the stove.  The top edges are flush.  Sand all edges flush and there is no need to remove all the laser char but the fore and aft surfaces should be sanded smooth for painting black later.

 

Step 2 - Glue the aft face (1/32" thick) onto the aft end.  The top is flush.  Note how the bottom edge hangs lower a bit.  That is by design.

Step 3 - Glue the 1/32" thick sides into position.  Make sure you orient them the correct way.  Note how the aft edges and top and bottom are flush.  Sand them smooth with fine 320 grit sandpaper.

 

Step 4 - Glue the top into position.  Sand all edges and corners flush.  Once again be careful to glue it on in the correct orientation.

 

Step 5 - Glue the grill into position. Outside surface is flush with the side edges.

 

Step 6 - Although indicated as step six because I built it in this order...I know realize that the above step should be done after you complete steps 7 and 8.  It will just be easier.  So skip ahead and then return to step 6.   In this step the two larger platforms are glued into position followed by the lids for the pots.   This is pretty easy as you just have to follow the laser etched outlines.  Sany them smooth for painting.

 

Step 7 - Glue the strips around the perimeter as shown above.   These are thin so be careful.  Add the three lengths for the legs first keeping them even so it wont wobble.  Then add the cross piece along the top edge.   The edges are flush as you can see.  Sand them flush after you glue them.  Dont worry about the laser char as the whole thing will soon be painted black.

 

Step 8 - Glue the doors into position.   Dont worry about the laser char.  You can also see above that I glued the two halves of the hood together so it can be shaped and sanded smooth.

 

Step 9 - Glue the round vent you see on the top of the stove.   You can also see the hood has been shaped.  It was sanded free of char and smooth.   The front edge of the hood has a slope aft.  This needed to be sanded into the hood.  It is not a very severe slope but you should check the plans for details.  The hood was laser cut a bit wider than needed to leave you room to sand it for a nice fit and all squared up.

 

Step 10 - Glue to more of the round pipes on the front face as shown to simulate the drains.  No need to get fancy here as these will be nothing more than a shadow once installed on your model.

 

Step 11 - assemble the stack and drain pan.   Get them ready for painting.   The short ends of the drip pan were glued on first followed by the long sides.  The stack is laser cut with very thin sheets ....but they are really not thin enough to look in scale.  So you should at least sand the walls along the top edge much thinner to make them look in scale and more fragile.  Not the whole stack but just gradually sand the sides tapered so it has the appearance of being much thinner sheet metal. This would be a great time to paint all of these parts as well.  Go ahead and paint the stove and these two other pieces black.  Keep the surface smooth and free of brush strokes.  Sand regularly between coats as you finish up the remaining details.

 

 

Step 12 - The stove has its first coat of black paint.  At this stage you can glue the laser board hinges onto the stove for all of the doors on each side.  Then paint those black as well.

 

Step 13 - Its going to look a bit messy now because its hard to not see all of the dust on the black painted surfaces.   But ignore that for now and press on.  Glue the two brackets onto to stove as shown.  Line up the square area of the bracket with the other one you already glued on each side.  Center it so there is equal distance on the top and bottom of the tiny squared area already on the stove.  Keep these brackets lined up on both sides and level.  They are very delicate so be careful.  Then there is one last tiny square or should I say rectangle of laser cut wood that is also glued to the top of the squared section of each bracket.  This finishes the simulation that the brackets are sliding through these small clamps on the side of the stove,  Paint them black when done.

 

Note that I also cut some 19 gauge black wire to length which will span across the brackets.  I glued the tiny disc to one end of the wire as shown above.  Then I also line up all the pieces for making the pulleys.  The pullies are made in three layers.   The center layer is very fragile so be careful. 

Step 14 - To assemble the pullies...glue one of the discs over the top of those in the center layer.  Tey outside layers are slightly larger than the center layers.  Then repeat this process on the other side.  These discs on the outer layers will simulate a pully nicely.  Just remember to keep the holes for those pulleys lined up.  See the photo below whic shows the entire assembly completed.

Step 15 - Glue the pulley assembly onto the other end of the long 19 gauge wire you made earlier.   You will also need to cut a shorter length that will be inserted in the smaller pully of the assembly.  See above.

 

Also not that because you may build your stove slightly different than someone else, I have laser cut three sets of "center layer" pulleys.  The top one on the sheet is the longest.  I used this one.  But you may have to use one of the other sizes depending on how you do in the next step. 

Step 16 - You must drill a hole into the side of the hood.  The shorter wire on the pulley assembly will be inserted into it.  Depending on where you drill this hole will determine if you need a shorter or longer pulley assembly.  So place the pulley on one of the bracket arms to get a sense of where you need to drill that hole.  I ended up drilling it dead center (left to right) on the hood but slightly lower than center (up and down).  If that make sense.   You can also use a shorter pulley assembly and place it on the next level above on the bracket arms as well.   You have many possibilities.

 

I have also started to take care in finishing the black painted surfaces properly.  Sanding the rough spots with 420 grit and repainting.  I have also used some weathering powder as well to make it look like metal. 

Step 17 - 24 gauge black wire was used to shape the handles for the pot lids.   I drilled out the holes in the lid deeper and test fit the handles carefully so the black paint wouldt be damaged.   I had to bend the wire a few times into the handle shape so it was the correct length so the holes lined up.  The stack was also glued on top as you can see.

This finishes your stove.   There are many more details you can add but that is up to you.   The stove will end up being only partially visible below deck.  So take your time and make sure the painted surfaces are smooth and painted with care.   

 

On my stove for the model I added some wire to each side along the top edge.  This was sometimes used on the stoves to hang pots and pans and utensils.  But the stove is very fragile so this is an optional detail.  I used 25 gauge black wire.  There were also eye bolts with rings along the top edges in some cases which were used for the lifting the stove.  Again ....you can get crazy with the level of details.  But below deck you will be disappointed with how many of these details will ever be seen.  So rather than risk breaking it or over doing it, I concentrated on "neatness"  and making a well crafted  and painted stove.  These close ups are pretty brutal but this is a tiny fitting actually.   

 

 

Ample amounts of weathering powder were used on all surfaces once completed.   The powder achieves two things.  First when using a rust or brownish tint it makes the whole stove look more like metal.   But most importantly, the entire stove was coated with an ash or grungy black powder first.  Every surface.   The powder really smooths the surfaces out and covers up the brush strokes etc.  ....It makes the surface smoother to a degree but all care should be taken to have a smooth painted surface ahead of time.   I used the grimy grungy black powder first.  Then I followed that up with some rust powder.  I tried not to over do it with the rust because you dont want it to look too "rusty".    You just want to use it to define certain areas.  You can see the difference in the surface quality as my stove assembly progressed.  With each new photo I spent time working on the surface quality and applying more powder.  I also sprayed the entire stove lightly with Dull coat before adding a final layer of weathering powder.   

 

As this was my second stove I wont go crazy.  I just needed to have construction photos for you guys.  Just take your time.   It took me 14 hours to assemble the stove and finish it as you see it in the above photos.  I also learned that it is very very hard to take pictures of a solid black object so you guys can see the details, LOL.

 

 

Shown on the model.  But remember the fcastle deck isnt done yet so you can see how much of the stove is actually seen.

 

 

 

[Tigersteve]

Beautiful design and execution. 
Steve

[glbarlow]

Wow!

[scrubbyj427]

Nice work Chuck. Very convincing.

JJ

[JeffT]

I thought it was made from metal. Very realistic result.

[Chuck]

Decided to spend the rainy day working on the Winnie.  This starts Chapter 9.

 

Happily, this is the chapter where we will cover up all remaining traces of the sub structure and bulkheads.  It will hopefully start looking much cleaner very soon.  

 

To begin, the bulwarks along the qdeck were planked at last.   There are two laser cut pieces to make this easier.  They are 3/64" thick. I added the aft section on both sides first.  You should shape it for a perfect fit first.  I made it a tad higher just in case there is some variation model to model.  You also have to notch it over the margin plank along the transom.  Then make life easier for yourself and paint these pieces while its off the model. 
 

Then glue them in position.   Repeat the process with the forward half of the qdeck bulwarks.  You can see the forward section for the port side laying on deck.  That will be added next before moving on to the fcastle.  Dont mind the dust.  I should have given it a blast of "air in a can"  to clean it up before taking the pictures.  Sorry about that.

 

For the fcastle bulwarks there is no need for laser cutting.  Just use a 7/32" wide strip cut to length and pre-bent.  I suppose a 1/4" wide strip would work to and just cut it down to fit.  I pre-bent the strip (3/64" thick) and then clamped it in position.  Then I traced the proper height and trimmed it to fit perfectly in one length.  But before doing so I added one short length against the bollard timber at the bow.  This is a flat piece painted red before gluing it in position.  Then you can use this to help position the long strip for the facstle bulwarks.  

 

I also pre- bent this long piece and once a perfect fit I pre-painted this as well.  Made for a nice clean edge against the deck beams although it wont matter because we will be adding the margin planks at some point soon.

 

It already looks so much nicer that I dont have to look at the bulkeads any more.  But lets keep going.

 

Time to add the caprail.  This will cover all the messy layers and finally close up all the framing so I no longer have to look at it.  So far I have only added the caprail along the waist.  A 5/16" x 3/64" strip was used.   I rounded off the outboard edge on top and bottom.  This edge will look nice this way above the fancy molding.   Then I painted it black while off the model including the inboard and outboard edges.  In fact those were most important.  When glued in position the inboard edge is flush against the bulwarks with no overhang.  The outboard edge should have much of an overhang but look nice being directly above the bright unpainted fancy molding.  

 

 

Here is an over picture of the model.....I will now add the caprail working my way aft first.  Then I will do the fcastle.  These pieces will be laser cut.

 

 

The bulwarks are widest in the waist at 5/16”…give or take.  If you have a need for a wider caprail that would be problematic.  There is nothing worse than an oversized and thick bulwarks.  It just means you didnt fair them down thin enough early in the project.  
 

The bulwarks and caprail are slightly narrower along the drifts and qdeck and the fcastle.  These next pieces will be laser cut so the width of your bulwarks will matter. These pieces will have cut-outs for the timberheads.

[Stuntflyer]

That looks great!

 

Mike

[Thistle17]

Opening up MSW and dialing in your build is akin to morning vespers for me. So much so that I brought out my Winne bulkhead assembly and placed it where I cannot ignore it any longer. Your work is so inspriational!

Joe 

[FrankWouts]

That doesn’t only look great, it’s unbelievable: I thought there was going to be a little metal kit as well…

I’ll put away my soldering iron for now then.

Frank.

[Chuck]

 

No metal.  Metal photo-etch stoves do exist aftermarket from other folks but using wood is so much easier and is actually how most stoves on contemporary models were built.  

 

I will say this,  most cant believe its not metal when they see it in person.  Thats the beauty and wonder of model making.

[JeffT]

Looks like metal to me. Can't tell from the pictures that its actually wood.

[Jim Rogers]

4 hours ago, Chuck said:

 

No metal.  Metal photo-etch stoves do exist aftermarket from other folks but using wood is so much easier and is actually how most stoves on contemporary models were built.  

 

I will say this,  most cant believe its not metal when they see it in person.  Thats the beauty and wonder of model making.

Where did they carry the wood for this stove? It must have been a large load.

[bdgiantman2]

10 minutes ago, Jim Rogers said:

Where did they carry the wood for this stove? It must have been a large load.

I think they would carry small amounts of coal to first start a fire in the galley stoves, but one of the things it seems they would do was burning the boards from barrels that had been taken apart upon being emptied. Now I admit that I have no clue how often the stoves were allowed to burn out during a voyage other than weather related or even if put out at night. 

[Gregory]

The AOTS for Bellona said she shipped out with 48 tons of coal, wood and candles..

 

Perhaps the Winchelsea would have had half that..   I don't think the candles would have been a big part of that..

[bdgiantman2]

4 minutes ago, Gregory said:

The AOTS for Bellona said she shipped out with 48 tons of coal, wood and candles..

I personally wonder though how much of that carried wood would be for repairing the ship at sea vs for using as cooking material.

[PRS]

6 hours ago, Chuck said:

 

No metal.  Metal photo-etch stoves do exist aftermarket from other folks but using wood is so much easier and is actually how most stoves on contemporary models were built.  

 

I will say this,  most cant believe its not metal when they see it in person.  Thats the beauty and wonder of model making.

 

 

I can see that the weathering powder does a fine job on making that look realistic.

[Chuck]

Continuing on with the caprail....

 

The next stretches of the caprail are the drifts above the hances working our way aft.  The first piece is the one you see painted black.  All of these pieces pieces were painted black off the model.

 

Make sure you orient this piece the correct way.  There is a laser etched arrow on the bottom of each piece which points forward.   This is crucial because there are notches cut out of the cap to accept the timberheads.  The rail along the quarter deck is quite detailed.  These are always a challenge to build and have look good.  So I am using this system to locate the timberheads and uprights.  So do not adjust the length of this piece or your timberheads and uprights wont line up later.  Just sand it smooth and round of the outboard edge.  Keep the length exactly as is.  

 

Once that piece is glued in position so the inboard edge is flush with the bulwarks, you can assemble the rounded front edge.  This curved piece (C1) is laser cut for you and is 5/32" wide.  You want a really wide piece to start because these are tricky.  So glue two of them together side by side to make a really wide curved cap.  You can see the laser cut sheet sitting on the deck frames.  I am test fitting the curved part of the cap against the first length I added.  Carefully mark the proper with on the bottom of this piece and sand it to fit the width of the cap rail.  You want it the exact same width as the piece it is attached to so it looks like one continuous board.  You can round off the outboard edge and glue it in position.  

 

If you look really hard at the picture you can see the two halves glued together.  The angles are trickier than you might thing and you will thank me for providing these two halves making a wide piece.   It enables you to get the proper skewed shape you will need.  You will see what I mean about slightly skewed or angled when you try and fit it before marking it for the proper width.

 

Glue it in position and do your best to completely hide the seem between the two pieces.  Apply wood filler if needed and sand it smooth.  Then paint touch up the paint.  Once again this complex curved piece was painted black ahead of time but after sanding and filling to hide the seam some paint touch up will be needed.  You can see the results in the next picture.

 

You might also see that I was testing how the fancy rail would work and go together on the port side.  You can see some timberheads and a rail being tested.  It worked out pretty good.

 

Anyway...back to the caprail.  We will continue working our way aft.  Another curved section is made up of two halves....laser cut pieces (C2).   Same as before.  Dont sand the aft edge too much.   A really long piece of caprail will be placed against this curved section as you can see in the photo above.  If you alter the length of the curved piece it will change the location of all of those small square holes for the timberheads.  You might have a little wiggle room...but not much.  You will want the qdeck cannons to appear between the gundeck cannons below them.   Check the plans for the locations of all timberheads and uprights and you will see what I mean.

 

This long length doesnt go all the way to the transom.  It stops short about an 1" or 2" of the transom.  You will be shaping another short length to finish off the cap rail along the quarter deck.   Make sure you hide the seams nicely and take your time with this.  That last small length needs to be beveled which is why I made it a separate section.   This way we can control where all of the square holes for the timberheads where be located. 

 

It makes a big difference tp see the model with a black painted cap rail.  Below you can see I finished the cap rail along the qdeck bulwarks.   I only have the bow to do in order to complete this step of adding the cap rail.   

 

Any questions.  Did I explain the steps clearly enough?  Let me know if you have any questions.