chris watton Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share #211 Posted December 6, 2023 9 hours ago, ASAT said: Chris, any news on Bristol? A little longer on that, as we need to move to a larger premesis in order for me to produce another kit of that size. That or I let Indy stock run down completely, stop selling it and another large kit take its place. It comes down to space to stock the kit parts, laser cut sheets,materials, boxes, plans/manuals etc. Whe have, or the company has outgrown our home. Canute, hollowneck, Ronald-V and 12 others 12 3 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonSangria Posted December 6, 2023 Share #212 Posted December 6, 2023 So the 17th Kit will be a 'surprise'? hollowneck, thibaultron, mtaylor and 1 other 1 3 Current build: HMS Sphinx 1:64 (Vanguard Models) Finished: HMS Beagle 1:60 (Occre) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share #213 Posted December 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, DonSangria said: So the 17th Kit will be a 'surprise'? I prefer to wait until copper becomes available again before developing kits that have copper bottoms. thibaultron, Kevin, CiscoH and 3 others 6 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrochBoating Posted December 6, 2023 Share #214 Posted December 6, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 9:00 AM, chris watton said: and another small kit Now that's exciting Any hints? chris watton, mtaylor, Canute and 1 other 4 Simon. Current builds HMS Speedy v2023 - Vanguard Models Nisha - Vanguard Models HM Gun Brig Adder - Vanguard Models Previous HM Cutter Trial - Vanguard Models Saucy Jack - Vanguard Models Polaris - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted December 6, 2023 Share #215 Posted December 6, 2023 1 hour ago, chris watton said: I prefer to wait until copper becomes available again before developing kits that have copper bottoms. Copper is available, but it is expensive at the moment. What you could do is develop and release the kit without the copper bottom. Sell the coppering kit as an optional extra. If people want to swallow the cost, they can. If they want to save some money and go for an alternative (e.g. paint to simulate copper) they can. TBlack, Canute, thibaultron and 3 others 6 Regards, Keith 2007 (completed): HMS Bounty - Artesania Latina 2013 (completed): Viking Ship Drakkar - Amati 2014 (completed): HMS Bounty Launch - Model Shipways Current: HMS Royal William - Euromodel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share #216 Posted December 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Keith_W said: Copper is available, but it is expensive at the moment. What you could do is develop and release the kit without the copper bottom. Sell the coppering kit as an optional extra. If people want to swallow the cost, they can. If they want to save some money and go for an alternative (e.g. paint to simulate copper) they can. According to my photo etch suppliers, copper is not available right now, and hasn't been for almost a year now. thibaultron, BrochBoating and Canute 3 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB789 Posted December 6, 2023 Share #217 Posted December 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, chris watton said: According to my photo etch suppliers, copper is not available right now, and hasn't been for almost a year now. Chris, The world is short of copper and the situation is likely to be tough for the foreseeable future. There is huge growing demand for copper globally from the drive to net zero and electrification. Electric vehicles (which use 3-4x the copper of an internal combustion engine vehicle), decentralised renewable generation which needs to be connected to electricity grids (both of which are copper intensive), etc. Whilst copper supply is under pressure with few sizeable new ore bodies being found or new mines being developed; existing mines are experiencing significant ore degradation and do not have infinite mine lives. Most commodity experts I meet forecast the copper market being in material deficit from 2026 and with the deficit getting worse each year to 2030. Sure Tesla are doing some clever stuff with 48V and reducing the need for copper in EVs, but it’s unlikely to be sufficient or soon enough. Short of a major macroeconomic event such as a major recession or collapse in Chinese demand, I don’t see what derails the scenario outlined above. The current inability of your supplier to source copper may be due to post-covid supply chain and inflation related dislocations, so near term supply of copper sheets to your supplier may return, but longer term, high quality copper sheets are likely to become unavailable again or very expensive. Keith_W, mtaylor, hollowneck and 5 others 4 3 1 Dan Current Build: Yacht Duchess of Kingston (Vanguard Models, 1:64) Previous Builds: Fifie (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Nisha (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Zulu (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Saucy Jack (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Erycina (Vanguard Models, 1:64), HMS Alert (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Grecian (Vanguard Models, 1:64), Ranger (Vanguard Models, 1:64), HM Gun Brig Adder (Vanguard Models, 1:64) Waiting to be Built: Speedy (Vanguard Models, 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share #218 Posted December 6, 2023 Well, all I know is that I cannot order my PE copper plates. If it is the same this time next year, then copper tape will have to be the norm for kits that need it. I much prefer the PE plates, but needs must... mtaylor, KentM, Canute and 3 others 6 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted December 6, 2023 Share #219 Posted December 6, 2023 I quite like the tape. More of a scale thickness and cleaner to apply. thibaultron, usedtosail, mtaylor and 7 others 10 SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Harpy - 1796 (production prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted December 6, 2023 Share #220 Posted December 6, 2023 5 hours ago, James H said: I quite like the tape. More of a scale thickness and cleaner to apply. Same. I prefer the tape over the plates. hollowneck, catopower, DB789 and 3 others 6 Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted December 6, 2023 Share #221 Posted December 6, 2023 I remember seeing a list that Chris posted of models he would like to possibly develop for the Vanguard line someday and I was so surprised to see the Constitution on his list. For us Yanks on this side of the pond, the Connie would be a wildly popular model without a doubt. I don't know if I have enough years left to see it happen but, if it does come out before I'm gone, I'll be one of the first in line to buy for sure! 🤞 CiscoH, thibaultron, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted January 12 Author Share #222 Posted January 12 (edited) OK, just a little update. I have been very busy, if not producing stuff, then trying to carry on with my next two smaller developments. Today I finally completed the hull detail for kit number 15, the gun brig Adder of 14 guns (1797 - Acute Class). 12 x 18 Pounder carronades and 2x24 Pounder carriage guns. I think this has taken three weeks in total to get this far, perhaps two weeks for masts and rig. Size wise this fits neatly in between Alert and Speedy. The designs were a lot more involved than I initially anticipated, with the bluff bow and foredeck drooping down as it goes forward, presumably to help negate the recoil of the large 24 Pounders. As with Trial Cutter, it has drop keels, and all hull detail above main wale is pre cut and engraved, meaning very little planking required, which is also painted (or coppered) anyway. This was meant to be a nice cheap and simple kit, but as usual, I went too far, and ended up with a very detailed little kit with many laser cut and engraved sheets. Scale - 1:64th (of course..) Hull Length - 406mm Overall Length (Rigged) - 606mm Height Overall - 464mm This class was a Henslow design, and if you don't like the name, there is quite a choice: Acute Adder Asp Assault Biter Blazer Bouncer Boxer Bruiser Clinker Contest Cracker Crash (!!) Sparkler Spiteful All ordered and built in 1797 Adder was actually lengthened in 1798 to 97' along the main deck, so I doubt she was ever coppered in the as built guise. Most seem to have been coppered at a much later date after their launch, hence the white bottom. No idea how well this will sell.... Edited January 12 by chris watton Craigie65, CiscoH, Paul Le Wol and 51 others 38 4 12 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubbyj427 Posted January 12 Share #223 Posted January 12 That looks nice Chris. Perhaps I’m seeing things or it’s part of the stand, but are those daggerboard keels on the bottom? thibaultron and Canute 2 Current Builds: HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 - 5th rate 32 gun frigate (on hold for now) HMS Portland 1770 Prototype 1:48 - 4th rate 50 gun ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted January 12 Author Share #224 Posted January 12 And here are some pics of the 'pre-prototype', the hull I used to getconfirmation (or not) of the main parts fit. The channels were changed, as the original plans had them located in different positions, and the main channels needed changing due to the forward most 'stool' being just a little too forward of the main mast.. This hull served its purpose and is now in the bin. VonHoldinghausen, Thukydides, Canute and 21 others 24 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJohnson Posted January 12 Share #225 Posted January 12 Another really interesting design Chris, certainly better than the endless usual suspects from other manufacturers. I love those names, like a “evil” version of Snow White’s little friends! 🤣. thibaultron, No Idea, hollowneck and 10 others 11 2 Andrew Current builds:- HM Gun-brig Sparkler - Vanguard (1/64) , HMAV Bounty - Caldercraft (1/64) Completed (Kits):- Vanguard Models (1/64) :- HM Cutter Trial , Nisha - Brixham trawler Caldercraft (1/64) :- HMS Orestes(Mars), HM Cutter Sherbourne Paper Shipwright (1/250) :- TSS Earnslaw, Puffer Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted January 12 Author Share #226 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, scrubbyj427 said: That looks nice Chris. Perhaps I’m seeing things or it’s part of the stand, but are those daggerboard keels on the bottom? Yes, in fact, I do mention the drop keels in my post. mtaylor, No Idea, GrandpaPhil and 6 others 9 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubbyj427 Posted January 12 Share #227 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, chris watton said: Yes, in fact, I do mention the drop keels in my post. 🤦♂️I see…apologies. I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, so far. thibaultron, AJohnson, KentM and 4 others 5 2 Current Builds: HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 - 5th rate 32 gun frigate (on hold for now) HMS Portland 1770 Prototype 1:48 - 4th rate 50 gun ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdpic Posted January 12 Share #228 Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, AJohnson said: I love those names, like a “evil” version of Snow White’s little friends! 🤣. I thought they were Santa's other reindeer..... “Now, Biter! now, Blazer! now, Boxer and Bouncer! On Cruiser! on Clinker! on Sparkler and Spiteful!" Sorry it does not rhyme. As for the model, it looks to be an attractive subject and more manageable than many of the usual ones. mtaylor, chris watton, hollowneck and 7 others 8 2 - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted January 12 Share #229 Posted January 12 That is a very interesting looking ship. Different and nasty looking. Will the kit come with masting and rigging? Thanks for the great new designs and kits. druxey, hollowneck, Canute and 5 others 8 - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn-UK Posted January 12 Share #230 Posted January 12 I'll be spoit for choice for my next project druxey, mtaylor, thibaultron and 4 others 7 Glenn (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted January 12 Author Share #231 Posted January 12 43 minutes ago, chris watton said: I think this has taken three weeks in total to get this far, perhaps two weeks for masts and rig. 3 minutes ago, usedtosail said: That is a very interesting looking ship. Different and nasty looking. Will the kit come with masting and rigging? Thanks for the great new designs and kits. druxey, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted January 12 Share #232 Posted January 12 Oops, sorry Chris. I got so excited from the pictures I forgot what I had read.🤪 mtaylor, Canute, AJohnson and 2 others 5 - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted January 12 Author Share #233 Posted January 12 Just now, usedtosail said: Oops, sorry Chris. I got so excited from the pictures I forgot what I had read.🤪 All of my kits are full kits, all include masts and rig. In fact, all plans for this one are already complete, including the mast and rig plans. Canute, mtaylor, druxey and 9 others 12 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald-V Posted January 12 Share #234 Posted January 12 It´s a cool unusual design, I like it! It somehow reminds me of a little tank but then on water hollowneck, thibaultron, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Currently working on the HMS Sphinx from Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJohnson Posted January 12 Share #235 Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, mugje said: It´s a cool unusual design, I like it! It somehow reminds me of a little tank but then on water I think the Japanese have a word for this “Bakkushan” , I’ll get my coat whilst looking for more shelf space 😆 mtaylor, chris watton, hollowneck and 3 others 5 1 Andrew Current builds:- HM Gun-brig Sparkler - Vanguard (1/64) , HMAV Bounty - Caldercraft (1/64) Completed (Kits):- Vanguard Models (1/64) :- HM Cutter Trial , Nisha - Brixham trawler Caldercraft (1/64) :- HMS Orestes(Mars), HM Cutter Sherbourne Paper Shipwright (1/250) :- TSS Earnslaw, Puffer Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted January 12 Share #236 Posted January 12 3 hours ago, gsdpic said: “Now, Biter! now, Blazer! now, Boxer and Bouncer! On Cruiser! on Clinker! on Sparkler and Spiteful!" ". . . on Sparkler and . . ." ***CRASH*** 😧 hollowneck, Canute, Ryland Craze and 5 others 7 1 Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted January 12 Share #237 Posted January 12 4 hours ago, chris watton said: No idea how well this will sell.... Well, I like it! But then I have a thing for small warships -- the ones that did the lion's share of the work without getting much of the glory. I read up on Adder and was slightly surprised to see that she had a very short service life -- only eight years before being sent to the breakers. VTHokiEE, thibaultron, chris watton and 7 others 10 Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vane Posted January 12 Share #238 Posted January 12 There she is! I am glad you went with her, its such a weird ship. And she actually looks better than I imagined. Kind of the opposite to Speedy which has the most beautiful and proportionate lines. Perhaps you should sell it as a pair under the name "the beauty and the beast"? I think it will sell just because it stands out to basically everything else on the market. AJohnson, ccoyle, Ryland Craze and 8 others 10 1 Current builds: HMS Victory (Corel 1:98), HMS Snake (Caldercraft 1:64), HMBV Granado (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Diana (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Speedy (Vanguard Models 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigie65 Posted January 12 Share #239 Posted January 12 38 minutes ago, Vane said: I think it will sell just because it stands out to basically everything else on the market. Yip, I will be watching out for this one being put on sale. Plus should be small enough to hide from the admiral 🤞 chris watton, AJohnson, Canute and 6 others 3 6 Cheers Craig Current Build HMS Indefatigable Erycina - Vanguard Models Finished: HM Bomb Vessel Granado - Caldercraft, HMS Pegasus - Victory models, Nisha - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowneck Posted January 12 Share #240 Posted January 12 4 hours ago, mugje said: It´s a cool unusual design, I like it! It somehow reminds me of a little tank but then on water Uh-huh. Ugly little bugger. Placed alongside, would make my Grecian even more beautiful. AJohnson, Ronald-V, chris watton and 6 others 9 Ron Director, Nautical Research Guild Secretary/Newsletter Editor, Philadelphia Ship Model Society Former Member/Secretary for the Connecticut Marine Model Society Current Build: Grace & Peace (Wyoming, 6-masted Schooner) Completed Builds: HMS Grecian, HMS Sphinx (as HMS Camilla) Ongakuka Maru, (Higaki Kaisen, It Takes A Village), Le Tigre Privateer, HMS Swan, HMS Godspeed, HMS Ardent, HMS Diana, Russian brig Mercury, Elizabethan Warship Revenge, Xebec Syf'Allah, USF Confederacy, HMS Granado, USS Brig Syren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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