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Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED


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Hi Mark! That's a nice stern you've got there! I look forward to seeing more!

-Elijah

 

Current build(s):

Continental Gunboat Philadelphia by Model Shipways

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15753-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-elijah-model-shipways-124-scale/

 

Completed build(s):

Model Shipways Phantom

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?showtopic=12376

 

Member of:

The Nautical Research Guild

N.R.M.S.S. (Nautical Research and Model Ship Society)

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Mark,

 

a very nice and harmonic looking stern portion, lovely work...

 

Nils

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

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WELL DONE MARK!!!!

 

Best,

John

Member:

Connecticut Marine Model Society

Nautical Research Guild

Model Ship World

"So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby

"If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you”

 

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nicely done stern Mark!

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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Very nice work Mark!  I love that silver maple you used, really sets it apart.  btw - 1 mm off?  The Dutch would say pffffff.  ;)

 

Cheers,

Piet, The Flying Dutchman.

 

"Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends."  (old Chinese proverb)

 

Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942

                       VOC Ship Surabaya

 

Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000

 

Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi."  Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp,  Buginese fishing Prauw.  Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser.

 

Completed Builds:   Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine

                             Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands

                             Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner -

                             Friendship Sloop Gwenfra

                           Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack    

                             Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum)

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Thanks for the "likes" and comments.

 

When I laid the keel, I also cut the stem, the stern post, and the rudder from the same chunk of wood.   I've been busy with other things recently, but did spend a lot of time researching the rudder and sorting things out.  I found that many of my assumptions and some of what is on the plans wrong.

 

Here's what I've found (including from those responding to a post on this)...

 

1) As built in 1755, there's minimal vertical taper.  It wasn't common to do this, but not uncommon either.  Which makes me wonder that maybe it was a shipyard decision.   The rudder follows this. 

 

2) There is no fore and aft taper to the rudder.  That one caught me by surprise.

 

3) There is a cavitation/turbulence groove.  This would have been added when the ship was rebuilt/overhauled at some point later in time.  It would have been present in 1778 when captured.

 

4) The fore side of the rudder was beveled at about a 45 degree angle.  The pintle and cudgeon<SP?> straps were recessed only at the fore side of the rudder and at the aft side of the sternpost where the straps bend to the side.  They were recessed as on some other nation's ships.   

 

5) No spectacle plate.  There's an eyebolt with rings on each side just above the strop hole for the emergency steering.  The strop hole is nominally rigged to two eyebolts.

 

So.. I machined the rudder blank as shown in the pictures below.  There's two mortises in the top of the rudder, one for the normal tiller (which on Licorne is in the Great Room) and one for the emergency tiller which is on the quarterdeck.

 

post-76-0-46701300-1457209629_thumb.jpg

post-76-0-70791700-1457209636_thumb.jpg

 

I'm off and running with the metalwork.  I've started silver soldering and wondered why I didn't do this years ago.  It's pretty fast and gives a nice result.  

 

 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Hi mark

Nice machining and research on the rudder, would it not have been made out of three or four pieces though like the English style, the rudder on syrius appears to have actually had five pieces with the fore and aft bits softer wood in case of damage and easy replacement

Paul

The clerk of the cheque's yacht of sheerness

Current build HMS Sirius (1797) 1:48 scratch POF from NMM plans

HMS Winchelsea by chuck 1:48

Cutter cheerful by chuck 1:48

Previous builds-

Elidir - Thames steam barge

Cutty Sark-Billings boats

Wasa - billings boats

Among others 😁

 

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Hi mark

Nice machining and research on the rudder, would it not have been made out of three or four pieces though like the English style, the rudder on syrius appears to have actually had five pieces with the fore and aft bits softer wood in case of damage and easy replacement

Paul

 

It was actually made out of 3 pieces of wood, Paul.   The main piece was oak and the other two were pine.   I'm planning scribing the lines in as they're straight and not tabled like the English ships.  Unfortunately, I don't have anymore of the original boxwood that used when I cut the blank otherwise, I would re-cut.   What I do have is noticeably different so... for eye-appeal, I'll go with what I have.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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very nice..........good to see your making sawdust.

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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Very nice work Mark and yes, sometimes we have to do whatever it takes to make things appear as if it's buildup out of different pieces.  hen all he smoke clears it wont (hopefully) not be noticeable.

 

Cheers,

Piet, The Flying Dutchman.

 

"Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends."  (old Chinese proverb)

 

Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942

                       VOC Ship Surabaya

 

Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000

 

Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi."  Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp,  Buginese fishing Prauw.  Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser.

 

Completed Builds:   Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine

                             Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands

                             Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner -

                             Friendship Sloop Gwenfra

                           Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack    

                             Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum)

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The "likes", comments, and questions/challenges appreciated.....  :)

 

So... pushing the envelope...

 

I've reworked the rudder and added some metalwork.  It looks a lot better.    The metal banding will have the appropriate amount of nails in it before this piece is ready to mount.

 

Edit:  I forgot to add... I cut it apart using a thin jeweler's saw and then glued it back together using some colored glue.

 

post-76-0-45663200-1457239478_thumb.jpg

 

And a couple of quick shots of the rudder irons/straps in work.  I started by annealing the straps.  I silver solder the tube, cut-off the excess, and clean it up with a file.  For the pintle, a 1/16" brass rod will be epoxied into the tube.  The cudgeon will not have the shaft, naturally.   ;)

 

post-76-0-30505000-1457239563_thumb.jpg

I should note that these are not cleaned up yet.  

post-76-0-67892200-1457239571_thumb.jpg

 

So far, so good.  I've got a pile of brass pieces now pickling in some vinegar.   I'll rinse well and let dry overnight.  I'm thinking of using paint on these or hitting the local gunshop tomorrow for some Birchwood Casey's.  In testing, Blacken-It did nothing for the silver solder.  I've got some discards painted and drying and I'll how they look.  

Edited by mtaylor

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Hi Mark

 

Too much to read for too less time....................

But I`m tryin`! What I`ve seen yet, impresses me, best work. I`ll keep on watching this :) .

 

Regards

Gerhard

Problems just mean: solutions not yet found

 

Models in progress

SMS DANZIG

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12842-sms-danzig-1851-by-gerhardvienna-radio-150-scale/

USS CAIRO

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13282-uss-cairo-by-gerhardvienna-live-steam-radio/

Baby Bootlegger 1/10

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13625-baby-bootlegger-110-radio-by-gerhardvienna/

 

Swiss paddlesteamer RIGI 1848 1:50, after plans from the Verkehrshaus Zürich, rescaled to original length

Anchor tugboat BISON, 1:50, plans from VTH, scratch

Finished models

See-Ewer ELBE, Constructo kit 1:48

German fastboat after plans from german Reichskriegsmarine measure unknown (too ugly to show up!)

German traffic boat for battleships WW2, 1:50, after plans from Jürgen Eichardt, scratch

German Schnellboot TIGER P6141 VTH plans, scratch

 

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Your rudder is looking great Mark!

-Elijah

 

Current build(s):

Continental Gunboat Philadelphia by Model Shipways

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15753-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-elijah-model-shipways-124-scale/

 

Completed build(s):

Model Shipways Phantom

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?showtopic=12376

 

Member of:

The Nautical Research Guild

N.R.M.S.S. (Nautical Research and Model Ship Society)

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Nice work Mark, looks good

 

Best Regards,

Pete

"may your sails be full of wind and the sun on your back"
 
Current Builds :

 

 

 

 

 Future Builds :
 

N.G Herreshoff 12 1/2 Scratch Build 3/4" = 1' - 0" Scale

 

Completed Builds :

 

Volvo 65 Farr Yacht Design

Herreshoff Alerion

Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14

Volvo Open 70

 

 Member : 

 

The Herreshoff Registry                                  Montgomery Sailboat Owners Group       Peter Kunst Sailboat Models 
http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/                       http://www.msog.org/                      http://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst-Sailboat-Models-1524464774524480/ 

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Wow Mark. Very nice work!

 

Jesse

 Current build: Syren : Kit- Model Shipways

 

Side project: HMS Bounty - Revel -(plastic)

On hold: Pre-owned, unfinished Mayflower (wood)

 

Past builds: Scottish Maid - AL- 1:50, USS North Carolina Battleship -1/350  (plastic),   Andromede - Dikar (wood),   Yatch Atlantic - 14" (wood),   Pirate Ship - 1:72 (plastic),   Custom built wood Brig from scratch - ?(3/4" =1'),   4 small scratch builds (wood),   Vietnamese fishing boat (wood)   & a Ship in a bottle

 

 

 

 

 

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rudder looks great Mark  ;)

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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That's a beautiful rudder Mark.  Very nice job.  I'm about to take up silver soldering too - glad you are finding great results from it.

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    Hs129B-2 1/48  SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32   IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

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Now that's using your nagen on the rudder Mark.  Nice clean straight cuts, well done!  Yup, my jeweler's scroll saw is in hand's reach too, very useful tool.  Nice work on the metal straps.  Wasn't there a post where someone used blackening stuff that also blackened silver as well as soft solder?  Paint works fine with the proper prep.

 

Cheers, 

Piet, The Flying Dutchman.

 

"Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends."  (old Chinese proverb)

 

Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942

                       VOC Ship Surabaya

 

Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000

 

Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi."  Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp,  Buginese fishing Prauw.  Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser.

 

Completed Builds:   Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine

                             Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands

                             Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner -

                             Friendship Sloop Gwenfra

                           Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack    

                             Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum)

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I have found that silver solder blacken when properly cleaned and prepped.  Silver soldering is something I am glad I learned.  Just practice and after awhile you will never look back.

David B

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Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Just a few shop notes... the metal bands at the top are black construction paper. Even though they will be hidden, I just wasn't getting the look I wanted from brass.  I still need the nails.  

 

Ah silver soldering... I'm still working on the rudder straps.  I made about 30 of them and discarded all but the best ten.   I'm happy with what I kept but I should probably practice some more.   I tried some Blacken-it I had lying around and when it hit the silver solder it put a green sludge down.   So tossed the Blacken-it and the test part.  I've ordered some Birchwood Casey Pewter Black... they say good for brass and solder... If that doesn't work, I'll paint them with some flat black primer.  Primer has a bit of texture.  I'll need the blackening anyway when it comes time for cannon but that's a ways off yet. 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Nice work on the rudder and soldering Mark... looking really good!!!

 

Frank

completed build: Delta River Co. Riverboat     HMAT SUPPLY

                        

                         USRC "ALERT"

 

in progress: Red Dragon  (Chinese junk)

                      

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Hello Mark,

 

Your Licorne is looking wonderful. You can say what ever you want. The British might have the most strongest and successful sailing vessels, but the French ships have the most beautiful lines, isn't it?

 

Daniel

Cheers,

Daniel

 

In dockyard: HM Colonial Schooner for Port Jackson (scratch), HM Armed Vessel Bounty, HM Cutter Sherbourne

Next builds: HMS Victor 1797 & Gannet 1814 Cruiser class sloops, ship and brig rigged (scratch)

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