Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Tigersteve]

@ASAT just trying to add some humor to this. Didn’t mean to offend.

[Chuck]

Guys I dont mind being asked.   I usually do a lot more with these projects than most so its a fair question.   But rest assured, you guys will do a great job on the planking.  The hull size makes things much easier.   If you are using the cedar that is an advantage as well.  It is very pliable and bends so easy.   You can literally tie thinner pieces into a knot.   Its just a matter of going slow and getting a tight fit.  Having the lining off completed will allow you guys to really concentrate on the craftsmanship  aspect of planking and getting some really tight joints.

 

My only advice.....try not to over analyze things.  It causes "analysis paralysis" ....just dive in and start making some progress, otherwise your shop floor will remain too clean and absent of sawdust.    This is a long term project so you need to get started and build up some momentum....otherwise it will never get finished.  You will figure it all out once its on your work table.

[Beckmann]

I must admitt, without all the assistance you provide chuck, people like me would probably never start such a model projekt. If I come home after work I have about 1 hour time every second or third day to go into the Workshop and make some progress. You make it all very easy, so fulltime busy people still can have some model-building fun and make some progress late in the evening. 

[Chuck]

Thank you for saying...that alone makes it all worthwhile to do.  I am glad you have started cutting and gluing parts.  I do wish more would dive in and get some progress made.  That is the hardest part.  Just get started and the rest will fall into place.  

 

Chuck

[knightyo]

58 minutes ago, Beckmann said:

I must admitt, without all the assistance you provide chuck, people like me would probably never start such a model projekt. If I come home after work I have about 1 hour time every second or third day to go into the Workshop and make some progress. You make it all very easy, so fulltime busy people still can have some model-building fun and make some progress late in the evening. 

This is really an excellent point, and I think is probably why most people don't even try to take on a project of this nature.  I think I have the same amount of free time that you do, Beckmann.   Chuck, those templates look great!

 

Alan

[Chuck]

Started planking the belts today below the wales.  Let me describe how I plank at the bow by edge bending rather than spiling the curved planks from sheets.  You guys should give it a try.  The first belt uses 1/4" wide planking strips exclusively.  They are 3/64" thick.

 

I will break it sown into steps and hopefully this reads well.  I took still photos from the port side and I will do it again using video when I plank the starboard side.  

 

1. - Take a strip and sand the angle to fit the stem.  It will require beveling.  Then mark the width of the plank from your lining off on that front edge.  lets taper the plank for the bow.

2. - Then mark the locations for the bulkheads (the front edge with the tick marks).  Dont obsess over the locations...you can just approximate.

3.  Take a scrap length of 1/4" strip so you can mark the width of the plank at each bulkhead.  

4.  Transfer that mark to that bulkhead mark on your plank.

5.  Then connect the dots with a sharp pencil using a straight edge.  Then use a sanding stick, or blade to file the taper into your plank.

6. So far so good....but as many folks do, if you tried to force this plank on the hull it wont go well for you at this point.  If you force the plank against the one already on the hull, the top edge pulls away from the hull dramatically.  The photo below shows this....I even dropped a toothpick in the gap so you guys can see it better.  You will never be able to force that top edge down.  Instead, some builder create a creative run for the plank which is historically incorrect.  OR they start putting the first of about five stealers and drop planks.   Not the way to go.   This plank needs to be curved to fit the shape of the hull while laying flat against the bulkhead edges.  Here is one way to do this.  My favorite way.....EDGE BENDING>

7. To bend the plank edge-wise, create a simple hold down device for the strip (center).  Its just a 3/64" thick piece of scrap with a small length glued on top.  Once clamped to your bench, the planks is held down by it.  Note how the top edge is curved.  I also clamp the forward end of the plank and the other end while edge-bending it dry.  Now you can see that the plank is starting to lift up.  Bend it until it just starts to lift up.  Clamp it down but use some scrap on top of the plank so the clamps dont damage the strip.  I prefer dry heat bending....but if you must....just dip your finger in some clean water and run it down the area of the strip being bent.  Not a lot.....just to wet it a bit.   I am doing this for each plank.

8.  NOW...I bet you thought I would be using a hair dryer to heat - bend this plank.  I do use one.....BUT, I have since switched to something different.  It works even better!!!!  Its great for wider planks.  I still use the hair dryer to twist and bend strips the other way.  But at the bow....you only need to edge bend it.  Note that the strip is already flattened out where it was starting to lift....you are ironing it flat again.  Works great.  This is a travel iron...its really small.  They only cost about $20.  I use this only for edge-bending and then switch to a hair dryer for twisting and other bends.   They are not as hot as those soldering iron things with the fancy tips.  Those get super hot....too hot.  This small travel iron gets to around 400 degrees and you can adjust it.  I use it on a pretty hot setting....around 300 - 350 degrees.

9.  Below is the plank I bent in comparison to a straight plank.   You dont have to bend them all that much.  Sometimes when you test it on the model, there will still be lifting....that means you need a more severe bend.  So take it back and bend it some more.  

Other times you may not have bent it to the proper curve meaning the distance from the end of the plank at the bow for the center of the curve wasnt correct.  Then take it back and bend it again.  No big deal.  I find that the apex or center of the bend falls between the 2nd and 3rd bulkheads at the bow.  As you work your way towards the keel,  that location will change.  The severity of the curve will also change.

10. Now I can take that strip and fit it in the rabbet and hold the plank with just one finger.  No forcing.  It lays flat against the bulkhead edges.  But note, there will be gaps between this plank and the one already on the hull.  You must tweak it so you get a tight fit with no gaps.  It may require some beveling too.  This is also when you check your taper to see if the plank fits within the tick marks you lined off on the bulkheads.  If it needs some tweaking so you can stay on "plan" with your lining off....do that before gluing it into position.   But once you have a good fit, cut the other end to length and darken the edge with a pencil to simulate the caulking.  Then glue it into position.  I do use CA for all my planking.  Its the only thing I use it for.  This plank below still needs some tweaking because there are gaps after bending.

I managed to almost finish the first belt on the port side today.   I have just one last strake to put on.  Then I will switch to the Starboard side.  I work one belt at a time on each side.  Then I switch sides.   Here are some photos and it is starting to come together nicely.  I am sure I forgot to mention a few things on this long post but feel free to ask me any questions.   This is basically how I plank every hull after lining it off.   I must also mention that I bend and twist the strakes at the stern with the hair dryer to get the best fit after I establish the taper...just like I did above.

 

 

 

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

Very impressive work Chuck, I like the edge bending technique. Will be adopting this method for sure.

JJ

[JpR62]

Nice demonstration. Instructive and detailed. Thanks Chuck. I will also adopt this technique. Just to buy this little iron travel 😉

[Thistle17]

I have adapted Chuck's methodology for my planking practice. I rate myself as still a novice but this technique has immensely improved my results. To help with the tapering I have adopted using a Lee Valley miniature low angle block plane to approach the width line and then finish off with the sanding stick. I made a fairly long hand held clamping vice out of 2 pieces of maple about 16 inches long. One has a kerf cut in with  a shallow depth that the plank sits in. The kerf width is a shade under the plank thickness. The two beams are held together with wing nuts and screws and securely clamp the plank. This jig facilitates holding the plank firmly when running the block plane for the taper. For me it is just a time saver.

Joe

[svein erik]

so i gess i can do this metod on the cheerful without the spilling 😊

am looking farword to the video of planking☺ a grait looking model!!

 

svein erik

 

 

[Chuck]

yes you can use this method.  If you are using cedar, you can use a straight edge or metal ruler and a sharp blade to just cut the plank when tapering.  Then finish it off with a sanding stick.

 

Also,  with the cedar there is no need to bend the strip the other way.  It is so pliable that after edge-bending you are good to go.  

[Chuck]

One important thing I forgot to mention.  I am shifting the butt joints every TWO bulkheads using a 4 plank shift pattern as is typical.  Every two bulkheads.  If you only shifted one bulkhead which most folks do then the resulting pattern gets to busy and distracting.

[Chuck]

I was just asked via PM how you determine the size and shape of the curve before you bend the plank.  Excellent question.  Please if you have a question, dont hesitate to ask it in the open forum.  I am sure many of you have the same question.   Anyway....I forgot to show how I do that.  But luckily I have an image from the Cheerful project.  

 

To determine the curve need,   just hold the plank straight against the hull so it reveals the gap as shown below.   This will reveal the curve you need more or less.  I mark the widest point of the gap which is the apex of the curve.  I marl it on the plank with a pencil.  Then I take it to my "bending station"  and position the apex under my hold down device so it becomes the center of the bend.  I hope this clear.   Its very hard to describe in writing.  Once again you can see that the curve needed is not that severe.

 

[jhearl]

OK - I have two questions:

 

1) How long do you need to keep the iron on the wood?

2) How long does the wood need to cool before you unclamp it?

 

OK - just thought of a 3rd question - if you're using a hair dryer, how long do you need to heat the wood?

 

Thanks -

John

[Chuck]

1) How long do you need to keep the iron on the wood?

 

Not very long....you will need to experiment.   Just a few minutes and move the iron back and forth just like you are ironing.   If you get too much spring-back...just bend it some more.  You will get a feel for it.  Once you wet the strip with your finger....just dip in a container of water and run it across the strip first.  When you apply the iron...it will sizzle as the water evaporates.   As far as the time and temp...it all depends on the type of wood you are using.  No absolutes.  You must experiment.  Cedar doesnt take long at all but boxwood will take longer.  Some things are best discovered by experimenting on some scrap wood in your shop.  Your conditions and equipment will vary from mine.  The important thing is the concept.

 

2) How long does the wood need to cool before you unclamp it?  Just a minute or so.

 

OK - just thought of a 3rd question - if you're using a hair dryer, how long do you need to heat the wood?  Same applies.  It depends on the thickness and type of wood.  Best way to find out is test it.  Just bend a few test strips and play with it.  It all depends on how hot your hair dryer is.  Some folks like to use a heat gun but I find those too hot and dangerous.

 

Should you guys give this a try please do share your thoughts and experiences in your build logs.   I am certain that the answers to the questions above will differ from person to person.   Like everything else, there is a learning curve!!!!  So keep at it until you have that "light bulb" "ahhaa" moment.  It would be good to see how you guys do this and what your opinions and experience were.   

 

Chuck

[svein erik]

i did try out chuks metod he write  about not spilling yust edge bending etc,

and am supriced how akkur it is ( after the 3 time is on the hull...😉 but on the cheerful)

i also used the iron to heat the plank, i was happy to use the template edge bending plank that was in the box for the confederacy.

it was so muth better this metod its now my favorite😆

 

svein-erik

[Chuck]

it works like a charm......its my method of choice.....well done!!! Its a very quick method to use.    It requires few tools.....you could always use any old full sized iron.  But having the smaller one is much better.  You also wont get in trouble from the admiral, LOL.

[svein erik]

19 minutes ago, Chuck said:

it works like a charm......its my method of choice.....well done!!! Its a very quick method to use.    It requires few tools.....you could always use any old full sized iron.  But having the smaller one is much better.  You also wont get in trouble from the admiral, LOL.

ups🙊 i have the iron and i diddent tell my wife😲😉

[dvm27]

Just catching up after a vacation, Chuck. Great tutorials! One question regarding the tick strip patterns. Is it possible to add a small scale on these? From experience I have learned that downloadable patterns sometimes print out larger or smaller on different printers and this can create problems if the builder doesn't realize this.Also, I encourage each participant to make sure that they are printing at the "actual size" in their printer dialog box. This has solved many problems for me in the past.

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

it works like a charm......its my method of choice.....well done!!! Its a very quick method to use.    It requires few tools.....you could always use any old full sized iron.  But having the smaller one is much better.  You also wont get in trouble from the admiral, LOL.

Zap this if you feel it clutters up your topic Chuck, but here is a little iron I found ant Michael's.  It gets hot enough to make steam, but haven't charred any wood so far..

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Gregory

[Chuck]

😂..all done.....man you guys are demanding....LOL.

[Chuck]

Its quite pertinent to the discussion...I like the heaviness of the iron....even the small one does the trick.  I like the additional surface area better too. I really dont like those small heater things.   Just my preference.  You can heat up a 3" length of plank quickly if not a longer section and really press it down firmly with the iron.  You wont get the same affect on the plank with that.

[TOM G]

I used Chuck's method , here on my first build....... planks were edge bent all the way down to the garboard. i used a hair dryer on high heat....... get's plank hot real fast.  i also used rubbing alcohol 70% type, to wet the plank with my fingers........ the alcohol evaporates faster.

[shihawk]

Ok , i think i have seen enough . I,m in . My not so recent attempt at the Triton POF and several return attempts has convinced i need to learn more before attempting such a complicated project without instuctions and tools so the" Winne" sounds like the perfect project . Part of my problem is lookin for shortcuts and not following advice so hopefully with so many other builders and off course the masters advice i can settle myself to lisen to my superiors and do as i,m told . My plan is to do a complete scratch build from the plans although some parts , eg carving may be beyond me . I do have a fair bit of pear wood in stock from my triton efforts and wonder how that would look in this build ?  I,m not a fan of painting and again this could cause some problems ,but will look into diff colored woods before i begin . Will take a couple of weeks before i set up a build log but lookin forward to joining this happy group . Standards are high but thats the way to learn i guess . look forward to seeing u all soon .Oh btw    Chuck your a genius.................

 

Boyd 

Edited September 7, 2019 by shihawk

[Chuck]

Thank You!!!!  No short cuts here but it will be a lot easier than a pof build.  I would resist the urge to mix and match too many woods.  It will look pretty awful.  Basically we are gonna use two colors.  Black and red.  If you think ahead and visualize the finished model.  Too many wood choices along with a painted freeze will look like a Christmas tree....Way to much.

 

keep it simple and folks will actually finish.

[Chuck]

I took a stab at making some videos that show how I plank the bow of any ship model.  Specifically how to taper and edge bend a strip so that it lays flat against the bulkheads.   This is basically how I plank every hull at the bow.  I shot these videos at 720 HD quality so rather than string together the four videos into one long 20 minute session, I kept them individual.   They take forever to upload to you tube when they are 20 minutes long.   Literally hours.  So these are four short 5 minute videos instead. A lot easier to upload and process.   I will edit this post and add the other 3 as I finish processing them for upload.  Basically each part is split into an intro.....then tapering.....then edge bending.....and test fitting on the hull.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.   Keep in mind its weird making these when I am alone in my shop and basically talking to myself.  I had to reach around the tripod i order to get to the model and I was hitting it and had to start over many times....not my cup of tea all this video stuff!!!!  😂  Let me know if you think its worth the time as it is a real pain in the biscuit .  But I will continue if you guys get anything out of it.  I also must have had the camera too close to the hull so the first two videos are not as crisp as the others.   Live and learn.....next time it will be better  but I tried to get as close to the hull as possible so you could see everything.

 

The videos are posted here.....in the discussion about chapter two.

 

 

 

[Tim Murphy]

Just for general information. Chuck’s videos can be downloaded from YouTube.

They are very good.

Tim

[Kusawa2000]

Chuck: Thanks for taking the time to putting together the videos.. I have to admit I had a "ah ha" moment on getting those planks to fit flush and snug on the bow. Thanks again!

 

Mike Draper

[bdgiantman2]

I agree completely with Mike and Tim. Although you did thoroughly explain earlier in the blog spelling out how you did it, seeing the video helped a lot. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[Chuck]

Just letting you guys know that I have been steadily making progress.  Planking is not something that can be rushed.   No matter how well you make all of the other fittings and parts on a model, if your planking is bad that is all anyone will ever notice.   So go slow and keep it clean and neat with tight joints.   

If you see yourself going off your lining off tick marks with a  strake, no need to worry.  Then you should correct it with the next strake or two in order to get back on your marks.  Keep flipping the hull "right-side-up".....as you should check your run of planks every strake or two and make adjustments when needed.   Below you can see the tapered planks along the tuck and the transition of the planks onto the stern post rabbet.  Note the plank in the corner where the ends transition from the counter to along the rabbet strip.  The cedar is working out nicely and I think the color looks good on a model this size.  You guys can of course judge for yourselves but if you are building a frigate or other larger subject, this is a good choice.  Its a bit soft bu once you get accustomed to using it,  it really looks good.   I have only used a bit of wipe on poly on the planking.

I have completed two belts on the port side and am finishing of the second belt on the starboard.  Once completed I will reverse direction and start planking from the keel ....upward in order to finish up the hull planking.  You can see my planks entering the stem rabbet below.

 

Questions and comments are always welcome from the group.

 

Chuck