HMS Jason by Beef Wellington - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Artois-class frigate modified from HMS Diana 1794

[md1400cs]

Jason,

 

Super nice work. Your building notes are also so excellent - nice of you to share with such added details.

 

Cheers,

Edited October 5, 2016 by md1400cs

[Beef Wellington]

Sorry for not replying guys, been away - Tom, DFell, Sjors, Lou and Michael, thanks so much for the overly kind words, means a lot coming from this skilled group and makes me blush....

 

Lou - It is a great model, I think you just need to be prepared for the kit to be a little disappointing in areas.  Ray's great log highlights a number of these things as well.  Honestly, most of the fun I've had has been just looking at photos of models and figuring out the changes I want to make to the kit.  Seeing the results of others it builds into a beautiful ship.

 

Andy - I think I used around 6 sheets for the starboard side, I still have the rudder to do but should have enough left over for that.  The sheets contain182 tiles, so 1,092 per side.  I'm not sure how Amati sells them, the ones I bought came a little bit mixed up as the packets had been opened and resealed...

[Mirabell61]

Very nice copper sheeting work Jason,

 

you did a beautiful job there....

 

Nils

[Beef Wellington]

Nils - thank you for kind words, still going :-)

 

The Stern

 

I needed a bit of a distraction from coppering (which is still underway), and wanted to finally get cracking with the stern.  This was something that I knew from the get go that would likely require some thought and tweaking.  This is still work in progress and brings me up to where I am presently so I hope this works out OK.

 

First off, a look at the plans/instructions and comparison to the AOTS series.  Below is a comparison of the two, a scaled copy from the book, and the instructions, which are identified as being 1:1.  There are quite a few differences between the two, and measuring the provided PE parts, the plans are not accurately drawn.  Also looking at the photos on the kit box of the prototype, it just doesn't look right - too wide, lights proportionally too small, misaligned geometry etc.  AOTS also identifies the outside lights as decorative false lights which I'll look to replicate.

 

 

The look and feel of the AOTS version looks much better and authentic to me.  I made a cardboard template that adjusts the projected profile to actual dimensions, this means increasing the height to account for the 15% slope of the fascia, and  estimate changes needed to account for the horizontal curvature of the fascia. 

 

This lead me down the path of custom making the needed parts as I didn't the supplied parts would give me what I want.  The downside of this approach is that I won't be able to use the supplied PE trim work, but thats a price I'm willing to pay as they PE parts don't even match the plans.  A problem for another day.

 

 

Next step was to determine how the windows/lights are aligned as the provided PE parts would save much time if they can be used.  They differ slightly in size being a little smaller, but the biggest challenge is the difference in the profiles and shapes.  I found that if the circled 2 lights either side of center are flipped and reversed through 90 degrees, it gives a more pleasing run of the profiles to my eye.

 

The best placement of the PE parts was determined and tied as best as possible to the initial template.  Places for these were then made at top and bottom with some cut 0.5mm sheet, and allowing for the columns (dry fitted only at present).  Everything following was an exercise in compromise to get it looking 'right'.

 

 

Once the placement of the lights was finalised, a fascia piece was roughed up to fit around the position of the lights to the required shape and everything trimmed to fit  Fine tuning will be done later.

 

 

The taffarel was cut out of 2mm sheet, and the various coves cut and shaped.  Putting everything together together with the provided castings gave me the look and proportions I wanted which is enough for me to at least continue down this path.  I do hope to try some of my own carvings but that's a decision for down the road...

 

 

Next steps will be to pre-bend and laminate these parts, tidy everything up a bit and I'm sure identify some fresh challenges...

Edited October 20, 2016 by Beef Wellington

[ASAT]

Bold moves Jason, at first I though the differences were pretty subtle, but the more I look at it the more glaring the shortcomings of the kit become. Especially the window alignment and overall shape. As usual you are executing the changes well and I am certain that you would not have been satisfied if you had left them stock, have you determined if these changes will affect the side galleries? At any rate, awesome work ......

 

Lou

[cog]

Very nice work Jason, although, I have my reservations about the flipped windows. Some considerations:

 

-  On your second image from the top they look wide, and low compared to the windows enclosing them

- on you last image, the central window looks tall and narrow compared to those besides her

 

Cheers

[Beef Wellington]

Nice to have you look in Lou, thanks.

 

Carl:  You are right the center window is slightly taller on that side, but think its manageable.  The challenge is that there is no perfect solution because the PE pieces are just not 100% correct for any solution, its a case of finding the best compromise. I'm a little disappointed in this as the stern gives so much character to the ship, and the Swan/Pegasus kits have them perfect.  Heres a picture from the instructions of the Caldercraft prototype, you can see the problem here as well.  If you match the height at center, its then off with the 3rd light, and also the vertical alignment is worse...  'Nuff said "

 

[realworkingsailor]

Hi Jason,

 

Would scavenging the windows off an HMS Agamemnon PE set provide a better fit? (And at the very least some other PE bits and pieces that might prove useful). Looks like you can get the PE sets from Cornwall Model Boats.

 

Andy

 

 

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Andy, I did look that, but the price is so extortionate that I dismissed it, I've been mulling over for quite some time the other options:

1. making my own following the FFM guidance, but think this is too fiddly at 1:64 to get any better results
2. Buying a home 'PE kit' - would probably require a software investment as well to get good results
3. Laser-cutting in wood - would require investment in software and would likely be very (too) delicate at this scale

Overall, think I've made my peace with the parts, once things are assembled and get a lick of paint it I can step back and decide if its OK.  I've gone down so many circuitous routes already that I don't want to get into analysis paralysis.  I can do that when I get to moldings

[ASAT]

Have you asked Chuck (SyrenShipModel) if he can do the laser Windows? Or is it still prohibitive? I know he made some (or had them made) for his early Confederacy projects....

 

Lou

[ChrisLBren]

Hey Jason

I scratched my lights on my Confederacy at the same scale without a problem using a miniature table saw - similar approach to making gratings - it can be done and your lights have fewer panes

Best

Chris

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Lou - thats in my back pocket, but I would need to buy and get proficient with a CAD application.  I do want to do this, but just trying to manage how steep and long my learning curve is :-)

 

Hi Chris - sadly no table saw, but interested to learn what you used.

 

Thanks all for sharing ideas and comments.

[ASAT]

Nah, I bet if you sent chuck the AOTS scan he could do the conversion as it is a matter of straight / angled lines, or maybe he could alter the Confed lights, but I wouldn't want to speak for him. Also do you have a blueprint company in your location? I know I have a place that can take a PDF scan and convert it to a dxf file, might check your area for a printing place that does construction or industrial / machining type printing?

 

Lou

Edited October 20, 2016 by ASAT

[mtaylor]

Hmm.... it looks like the 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th lights are in sideways on the Diana...   weird.

[Beef Wellington]

A little update to what must be the worlds slowest moving build log.  Coppering on the hull is pretty much done, the only piece still to do is the aft side of the sternpost which will need some work done on pintles/gudgeons finished before I can do...more to come on that in a follow up post.  Just for a cathartic moment for me, pictures of where I'm at.  Like others, I wanted to give the copper more of an aged patina, all personal taste. Rather than following the bodily fluid method used by others (I must confess to being worried my model would smell like a car park for evermore!) I experimented with a chemical from JAX called - BROWN Brass, Bronze, Copper darkener (they also make a 'BLACK' version which seems to work well).  I diluted this to around 25%-33% by experimentation which seemed to give the best results.  It takes a number of applications, and I simply 'painted' it on with a modeling nylon brush.  Found that rubbing and agitating the surface while doing this gives best results.  Initially, the surface is very hydrophobic, but once the oxidation starts, its becomes much easier to keep a consistent surface covering and beading is not desired as it leads to dark spots.  The more dilute solution tends to green more upon drying, but this can be easily wiped off with water and/or rubbing alchohol.  Personally, I didn't want a green monster, and was happy to have a little patina in the crevices/nail holes which is almost  a negative effect for how the plates are supplied.  I'm not planning to seal the copper (yet if at all) as this should then continue to age naturally, I very consciously forced myself to stop despite there being some patchy spots but these all blend in and to my eye have a natural look anyway.

 

Bunch of photos which hopefully show the copper plate pattern in various areas, hope its not overkill, these are the kinds of pictures that I find useful from others.

 

More to come soon on the rudder..

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Wow, that's beautiful Jason.  Very clean look, and love the color of the coppering!

 

I was re-reading your issue on the stern lights.  I would think about doing them from scratch, as I think you are going to be annoyed going with the kit parts.  The stern is really where a lot of the character of these ships comes out (at least in my opinion), and I think many a model suffers when things are slightly off there.  Plus, your model is coming along so nicely, no sense in settling at this point.

 

If you don't have a table saw, maybe try either by hand or getting a friend to help?  I could always try cutting/milling some pieces if you want.  I was planning on scratching the quarter galleries and stern on my Pegasus, including the lights in holly, so depending on how that goes, I could similarly cut some pieces for you if you want to go that route.

[Blue Ensign]

Fine work on the coppering Jason, love the colour you've achieved.  

 

B.E.

[cog]

If slow means such results, ... take your time Jason ... coppering looks marveous ... you were refering to the black at the stern ...?

[drtrap]

Absolutely fine work Jason!

[BANYAN]

That is a very fine and clean job on the coppering Jason, I especially like the 'touch' of the nails in the batten.  Very nice work indeed!

 

cheers

 

Pat

[JesseLee]

Looks super Jason!

 

Jesse

[Dfell]

Just incredible work!!  It's a pleasure to see......

[Sjors]

Hi Jason,

 

I'm maybe a little late but I read the post from Andy ( Realworkingsailor ) that you maybe need the windows from the Agamemnon.

I just received the sheets for the Agamemnon because I needed the hammock netting brackets.

So there are also the windows.

If you still need them and want them, send me a PM and I will send it to you.

With us they only collect dust and if I can help you with that, no problem.

 

Sjors

Edited December 19, 2016 by Sjors

[Beef Wellington]

No update as such, but Merry Christmas to all. 

 

Thanks Mike, BE, Carl, Stergios, Pat, Jesse, Doug, Sjors and all the like for continued support and kind words.  I've moved on to solving some rudder issues and will post more in due course.  Have had to take a little step backward in that I need to redo the copper finish .  Funnily enough, after I had brought the ship upstairs for a photo shoot I left it there and after a couple of days the result was a couple of small areas that had become rather mottled.  I can only guess that this was because our main level is more humid (normally work in a basement) and I hadn't cleaned off all of the reactant - purely guesswork, as the ship had been sitting in my work area for a week before that.  You live and learn, must do a much more thorough job ensuring any reactant is removed....

 

Mike - see message from Sjors, don't think that will be necessary but definitely an option, continuing to noodle this one..

 

Sjors, will send you a PM.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Beef Wellington

[BANYAN]

A happy Christmas and best wishes for a great New Year to you also Jason.

 

I am sure you will be able to rectify that copper finish.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Beef Wellington]

Started to work some more on the stern and its positioning as well as trying to get the rudder finalised.  Hopefully photos are self explanatory.  First off though going to revisit a question raised earlier, i.e. whether ports without lids should have lips...consensus was that they didn't as there was no need, however I did get a chance to visit the Rogers collection at the Annapolis Naval Museum, and voila, the ports clearly have lips, maybe not as pronounced as those with lids but they're definitely there - I can only assume that this mirrored reality.  Side note, this collection is just incredible and very inspirational, a must visit for anyone who is able.

 

 

Stern Fascia

 

Placement of the stern fascia seems so important to the look and feel.  This is still not glued (hence the clamps), but I'm starting to get a sense for where I'm going with this.  I epoxied a curved piece of wood to ensure consistent placement, this still needs to be fine tuned to shape.  To get the appropriate position I came up with a compromise between the a number of dimensions on the plans as well as estimated from AOTS.  Having built up my own stern template I shortened the stern by 2mm to ensure appropriate angles with the upper and lower counter (basically because there is a shelf built up under the lights which extends 2mm beyond the fascia proper.  This was as much look and feel as anything and if I need to adjust upon reflection I can easily enough. Last photo shows a cardboard template in place for the upper counter which illustrates the complex multiple curves joining in this area.

 

 

Pintles and gudgeons

 

An unforeseen issue with making my own rudder was that the supplied cast pintles and gudgeons aren't the correct size (being uniformly 5mm wide, phots below show comparison to supplied rudder).  I ended up making my own out of wood strip.  Pintles weren't too problematic, but the gudgeons were very fiddly and hard to figure out how to secure properly because they are so small.  In the end, I CA'd all of these in place, but reinforced the top ones with pins to take the weight.  Holes in many of the 'non structural' gudgeons were drilled bigger than necessary to make it easier to mount the rudder.  Coppering this irregular monolith took quite some time and many choice words.  The gap between the rudder and sternpost is the smallest I could manage, and completing this took many redos. 

 

 

With the rudder finally in place (at least temporarily), I was pleased this turned out the way it did and in retrospect I'm glad I tried this modification despite the many extra hours of work and pondering.  The last photo shows the dramatic difference between the one built to AOTS dimensions and the kit supplied piece which to my eye looks too flimsy in comparison.

 

 

 

 

[BANYAN]

Very nice job on those gudgeons Jason; that rudder looks a lot better.

 

That transom is going to look very good when finished and well worth the effort you are putting into it.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

Well worth the extra effort, Jason!

[Barbossa]

Hi Jason,

 

It's a

[Barbossa]

Hi Jason, 

 

It' a delight to follow your progress and enjoying your innovative approaches : this is getting better and better.