Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Kusawa2000]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Thank you all for the kind comments.  I am happy that all you (at least those that gave feedback) want to continue as is.  I am glad I am frustrating you guys with these designs.  I will of course continue as is.  I am enjoying it very much but just wanted to make sure you guys were as well.

 

Greg…yes that Amazon model  is one of my absolute favorites.  I came so close to building that instead of the Winnie.  But anyway….six years later I am still thrilled with the Winnie.

 

Chapter 9 may be a while so for all you folks who have caught up,  please have patience…I do not want to rush through it.  And please do slow down a bit as I wasnt kidding…the headrails will need a bit more care and understanding build.  So those will be a stand alone chapter as I suspect a few of you may beed to redo some of those parts along the way.

 

 

Chuck: Good news! While the Winchelsea sits waiting for me to finish the Agamemnon, I can tell you I wouldnt have invested in the time keeping on top of your posts, and everyones building efforts if I think it was a second rate exercise.. Keep your hand steady on the tiller! 

 

Thanks you for your efforts

 

MIKE

[BubbleHead]

Please Mr. Passaro please keep up the  extraordinary 10. 

Thank You

Tom

[Chuck]

Thats the plan....and I hope that folks will start slowing down as well and really doing some more precise work.   There will need to be more shaping and some extra tweaking on some of these parts.   And I have been noticing the opposite is actually happening sadly...some are not even removing the char from these pieces and just gluing the parts together.    Everyone needs to take a deep breath also and treat each fitting as if its an actually mini project.

 

More on the fcastle to come soon.

 

Chuck

[FrankWouts]

No idea yet how I’d tackle all this headrail and carving beauty, but I have eight or nine chapters to think and contemplate on it and cowardly watch you guys all donit before me I guess.

I will sure take all the time it needs like I’m doing right now with the bollards .

But I agree with the apparent consensus : no compromises to detail nor quality, let’s take the hard road!

[glbarlow]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:05 AM, Chuck said:

Do you you guys prefer a simpler approach?  Maybe I am making this stuff too detailed and finicky?   I start to second guess if I am taking the part design too far based on how folks gush over the simpler designs

The level of detail, accuracy, and outright wow factor is what excites me about this project. I think others may gush over those other designs because they themselves are major steps above older kits and designs and a lot for a basic, anyone can assemble, kit. As appealing as they might be they are not in that same league, not even close, as to what you’re doing for us with Winnie. 

You make the deal for us by providing your advanced designs in way we mere mortals can still build them. Please don’t cut corners to make it simpler unless it's a simpler way to achieve an advanced design. This is why Winchelsea stands alone.

Edited October 28, 2021 by glbarlow

[jfhealey]

Chuck - you ask: "Should I design a 10 .... or settle for a quick 4 in results?"

 

My answer is in two parts. First I completely concur with the responses from my fellow Winnie builders set out above. Secondly I cannot help but feel you had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you posed your question. I suspect shooting for a 4 out of 10 outcome simply isn't in your DNA. You can leave the "that's close enough" approach to the likes of me. I'm constantly taking a deep breath and saying "slow down - take your time" . It's just........well, at least I'm getting better at model building but a way to go yet. Still I'm having fun and really looking forward to the 10 out of 10 tricky bits down the line.

All the best

Fred 

[Gregory]

I can't wait to see how Chuck tackles the head rails.  I'm sure it will be something to carry forward with any future build.

[Chuck]

Still plugging away on experimenting guys…i have made probably a dozen of these already all with different shapes and approaches.  These are all with the laser cutter but when time permits I may also give it a try on the cnc.

 

Just trying to manage my time to get it all done.  Each iteration takes a few hours.  Adjusting for grain direction and number of parts etc

 

These are just down and dirty experiments.  I am leaning in the direction of the one on the right.  But nothing will out do a scratch built rail but I am trying to get you guys close enough to be happy.
 

One of the many tests made in just cedar.  This one was discarded for obvious reasons.  I started using cedar for the tests because I was going through too much of my boxwood stash.  The shape isnt correct on this version and its a bit too heavy.  Too much sweep and curve toward the forward end of the rail.

 

 

These headrails will take a long while to get right.  I have to take a step back and turn my attention to finishing the next two chapters but I think its good that you see how many iterations I work up and the thought process. It takes me forever to work on each element.  I am never entirely satisfied.  
 

Feedback??  Any would be appreciated as it would let me know if I am on the right path or not.

 

[Gregory]

Do you think these would lend themselves to some lamination like you did with the hair brackets?

 

 

 

[Chuck]

That is actually how they are they made....Its a good thing that you couldnt tell, unless you think the results are not satisfactory.    All are different versions of that concept.  In fact that one rail is made up of 4 or even 5 different thickness of wood...

 

Chuck

[Gregory]

Impressive!  The look like they are carved..

 

 

[Jim Rogers]

Chuck are you going to make them a little long so we can adjust to our model. And can you supply two for the inevitable breakage.

[Chuck]

Yes they will be a bit long as I always do.   But I dont think I can supply two of everything for these.  That would cost a fortune and take too long to mfg.   It would be an enormous amount of parts to make as well.  I would never be able to make enough of them to keep them in stock in a timely manner.

 

Thats why the headrails will be a stand alone chapter.....those that need to redo them might need to buy a second chapter at some point.   Otherwise those that dont need the extras would be paying way more than they need because these will be made out of boxwood which is very expensive.   It would literally double the cost of that chapter.  And most of it would be wasted if not used.

 

Maybe I can set it up so folks can buy extra parts for these.  Just the headrail they need to do again...

 

For example...."extra main rail port side"  and then a separate store item for "extra main rail starboard side"..."head timbers port side".....Eking rail...etc.

[Jim Rogers]

That sounds like a great idea. 

[Guillermo Eduardo Madico]

Hello Chuck,

I think the curvature of the rail would be correct If you cut 1/8 to 1/4 of the forward end.  The after end will tilt forward a little below the freezes top decorative molding.  After that, just making the top after portion (above the freezes decorative molding) straight to vertical should do the trick.

The bell and housing looks fantastic. 

Best,

G

[Chuck]

Thats way too much...it wouldnt fit...it just needs a slight adjustment on the forward end so the curve isnt as severe.   This has already been done,  I am just waiting to get the shear rail completed around the fcastle along with the catheads.  It will be easier to finalize the upper headrail once those are in place.

 

 

More to follow.

 

Chuck

[Gregory]

Has your wood darkened, or is that just the lighting..  It really looks good..

[Guillermo Eduardo Madico]

That is perfect!

G

[Chuck]

Thats just what happens when I try to draw a line on a photo in the software I am currently using.  It really screws up the image.   LOL

 

Plus those were just taken with my phone.   I do that a lot because its quick when I am doing testing of parts.   Lighting isnt important I just need to check placement and shape etc.  I take dozens with my phone and then I can sit and really examine them...

 

Then I toss the part and tweak it and make another...rinse and repeat.  Thats the process.

[scrubbyj427]

I'm drooling.... that's it, I'm digging my Winnie out of storage and starting work again.

[Kevin]

lovely work @Chuck

[Chuck]

Thank You

 

Moving on to the belfry rail.  This is pretty straight forward.  All of the parts are laser cut for you.  I carefully removed the laser char from each piece and then glued each rail together.  One thing worth noting is that the tops of the rail uprights are shaped like the typical  timberheads you have all seen.  But they can only have the shape laser cut on two sides.  You will need to sand or file the shape on the front end of each.  I just used a sharp #11 blade actually to cut in the angle for the top.  There is a laser etched line already on the piece to act as a stop-cut.   So I just sliced the angle back towards the etched line.  You can see one that has been shaped before painting below.

 

Another detail to mention is the fact that the fcastle deck has a roundup or camber to it.   In order to ensure these uprights for the rail are actually vertical, the bottom of each of them is laser cut at the appropriate angle for you.   Just make sure you face them all the correct way when you insert the uprights into the rail.   Insert them top-end first as I also laser cut a small stop into the bottom half of the uprights so you can keep the height of the rail consistent along all three pieces.   

 

There is also a small "L" shaped piece that is glued to the inboard end of each rail port and starboard.  Make sure you glue it to the correct side....otherwise the rail will not sit properly and will lean to one side because of the angled bottoms.

 

These "L" shaped pieces once glued to each rail also help position it on the fcastle.  It makes it impossible not to center them on the fcastle edge properly.   The one side of the "L" actually sits against the belfry.  It butts up against the belfry sides.

 

Oh and I almost forgot...you can round off the sheaves on the rail just like on the other fittings you made from parts like this.  Paint them black.

 

Slowly but surely the fcastle is filling up with details.   Next up will be the large knee at the bow followed by the catheads.

 

Any questions or comments?  Feedback...

 

 

[BobG]

8 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Feedback...

In a word...stunning!

[scrubbyj427]

Looks great Chuck!

[Matt D]

That stop cut on the tops looks like a really nice feature to help with the shaping.  I’m looking forward to building these.  They look great!

[glbarlow]

10 hours ago, Chuck said:

finalize the upper headrail

Can these be done really fast and without removing the char 😂🤣😂🤣

[Trussben]

That’s a very nice way to do the rails.

[Chuck]

Thanks…this is also how I will probably approach the rails along the shear.  
 

That should work and make life a bit easier.  But you still have to shape the tops of each.  That takes some careful slow work but its worth it.

[Chuck]

I added the breasthook at the bow.  This was straight forward.  It is laser cut.  Unlike the one on the gun deck at the bow I cut this one in one piece.  So you may have to adjust and tweak it to fit snug and tight against the bulwarks a the bow.   Dont forget to chamfer the top and bottom edge on the aft side.  That is customary.   Unlike last time you see I also added some bolts.  There are four on each arm or side of the breasthook.  I used 30lb black fishing line for this.

 

In the same photo above you can also see the cathead I made.  But most important in that photo is the slot for the cathead.  Note how it has been notched out with a sharp chisel and blade.  I did so on the inboard side right down to the deck.   Take the INBOARD side down to the margin plank.  Remove the waterway as well.  Do this carefully.  You will need sharp chisels or blades.  Careful not to mar the deck.

 

On the outboard side it is a bit different.  See below.  I only notched the outboards side down to the top of the frieze.....OR better yet described, remove the fancy molding where the  notch will be.  Then deepen the notch down to the bottom edge of the molding that remains.  Its not as deep as the inboard side.  This is what will give the cathead its proper angle.

 

I hope this makes sense so far...

 

The catheads...

 

These are pretty easy to make but dont rush it.   The main cathead is in three layers.   The two outboard layers define its shape.  They line up with the front or OUTBOARD end of the cathead.   But this is very important.  The goal here is to not show the seams between the three layers if possible.  To minimize this, you MUST thoroughly clean the char from the edges of the center piece.  Its 1/4" thick boxwood so there is a lot of char.  Dont be afraid to scrape it and sand it.  I compensated for this and if you dont clean it well enough, the two outside sheaves of the cathead will be too wide.   So do go ahead and sand away!!!  Also test the sides periodically to check the width of the two outer sheave slots.   

 

Glue the layers up with tite-bond.  Make sure you line everything up and center the side pieces up and down.  Then sand them smooth top and bottom.  But also sand the center to the shape of the outside layers.  That shape is very important.  Note the finished cathead in the photo above.  Use a sharp chisel to get most of the heavy stuff off and when you get close to the shape switch over to a sanding stick.  Sand it to match the shape....test it in the slot on the model.  ONE MORE NOTE:  the front side of each cathead is NOT at a 90 degree angle.  It isnt supposed to be.  It is a much steeper angle actually and that is a detail not usually shown n models.  The angle of the front of the cathead is important and before you glue the star onto it you should make sure its flat and shaped appropriately.  Look at the laser cut sheet and I think you can better see the actual shape of the cathead on the side panels.  I made sure I gave you guys an extra cathead just in case.

 

The front piece is similar.  It has that wonderful star pattern etched onto it.  Sand the four sides flush.  But also try and scrape some of the char away from the perimeter of the star.  I used the tip of a #11 blade to scrape away a good amount of the char around the outside of the star.  It cleaned up really good.  I found it easier to do after I glue it onto the cathead.

 

Test it on the model...

 

In this photo above you will also notice how I added an iron band around the outboard end.  Its very thin.  I just used some black tape for this.  Dont make this too heavy and wide.  Just a really thin band.   Use the seam from the star piece as a guide.  Cover up that seam or at least put the band right up against it.   It really finishes it off wouldnt you say?

 

When positioning it....the inboard side is also very very important.  Remember you want it to look like one piece with the cat tail under the beams.  Do your best to line them up assuming you positioned all that stuff carefully enough early on.  

 

See below.  we are just trying to simulate the cathead and cat tail being in one piece.  Do the best you can.  Its a very difficult part to make otherwise.  Especially with a cathead as detailed as this one.  Oh and yes there are laser cut sheaves for the cathead as well.  You can see them in the photos.  Just glue them into the slots for them.  

 

I am not sure I pulled it off 100% but its real close.  I am happy with the results.  Especially after looking at how the catheads are usually portrayed on most kits.  They seem like afterthoughts.  But they are an important detail in my opinion. 

 

Now to do the other side....any comments or questions??

[Kevin]

until now i never gave a thought of how the cat head was secured  as you say normally just an afterthought,