Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[mtaylor]

After cleaning up the shipyard a bit, here goes....   New framing wood has been ordered but due to Jeff at Hobbymill's schedule it won't be here until late (very late) April.  I'm planning on using up my existing stock of swiss pear, ebony, pear, silver maple, and cherry and maybe some boxwood if I see fit. 

 

At this stage, I'm poring over the plans and notating such things as wale, gunport, and deck clamp locations on the individual frame drawings as I'm planning on putting some reference points on the frames physically as I cut them.  This should solve some of my previous issues..  With 60 frames, this is going to take a bit.

 

I have a new build board laid out and prepped but not cut.  The frame reference board is ready to go.

 

I'm still making a final decision on whether to stick with cherry or go with boxwood for the keel, stem, and stern items.   Version 1.0 sits forlornly in another part of the shipyard waiting for various bits and pieces to be cannibalized.  I'll be re-using my old fabricated measuring tools and making some new ones.

 

Hopefully, by the time the framing stock arrives, all the plans will be annotated and scanned, all the bits and pieces from V 1.0 will be cannibalized, and bunches of new bits will be fabricated and then ready and waiting. 

 

It's time to do this beast right and proper... and to have some fun doing it.

 

Footnotes to the build:  I'm adding to this as I discover things.

The Hahn plans lack a lot of details so additional sources will be needed.

    a) Hahn's "Ships of the American Revolution" is a must to understand the building method.

    b)  I also recommend the "La Belle Poule" monograph from ANCRE.  This has period bits and pieces along with the proper rigging as Hahn used La Venus which has pointed out to me as being from a later period.

 

 

[mtaylor]

Here's the seemingly mandatory history:

 

This ship caught my attention the first time I saw the plans because it had a white flag. Laughed a bit until I researched it. But then the lines caught my eye. She's a 32 gun, frigate of the 8 pound gun class.

A bit of history... built 1755 in Brest. Not too much in the way of history available except for some highlights:

1756 - Carried troops to Quebec.

1757 - with Marsaint's divsion on the 21 Oct. A "most bloody conflict" with the British off Santo Domingo. No ships lost on either side, but a high casualty count.

1762 - expeditions against British shipping and the Sale pirates.

1778 - she was part of a small fleet in company with Le Belle Poule, Hirondelle and Le Coureur. They ran into Keppel's squadron. Licorne as surrounded and captured. La Belle Poule had a famous two-hour duel with the British and escaped to a nearby bay.

For the next five years it was known as HMS Licorne  in the British Navy.

1783 - Sold out of the service.

 

From the plans, it appears to be a good beginner scratchbuild. Clean lines, minimal carving. Some things from the Hahn plans needs changing such as the mast caps and the cannon rigging. I'm still researching via Boudriot and Frolich.

I'm planning on completely planking her, but that may change.
 

[Jim Lad]

Up and running again, Mark!  Great stuff!

 

John

[augie]

Sounds like a plan!  Nothing like getting right back on the horse. Save me a seat for when the voyage begins,

[mtaylor]

Yep, back on this old horse.   Seats are available but we'll have to wait on Sjors for popcorn. 

[newbuilder101]

Great to see the new log up and running - will be looking forward to the first installment!

[shipmodel]

Mark -

 

I'm back on board and ready to enjoy the journey as you heave the capstan, splice the mainbrace, pay the devil, and all that other nautical stuff.

 

Dan

[Rustyj]

Yay! it's onward we go my friend!  

[JeffT]

Good to see you back in business 

[Vivian Galad]

Following close, sir! =D

[CaptainSteve]

Where's that guy with the pop-corn ??

[DSiemens]

Got my chair pulled up I'm ready to see the beginning of the master piece.   Good luck Mark.    

[harvey1847]

I will be sitting just on the sofa looking your new log!

 

Best wishes Mark and good luck!

 

 

daniel.

[Wintergreen]

Hi Mark, I truly understand your decision. We learn as we go and I like the #9 point on your list "Its a hobby - have fun!"

 

I've marked a seat in the back row since I'm not that active at the moment.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Mark,

 

I wish yo a lot of fun with your beast. I'll follow your log with great interest.

[gjdale]

Whew, just made it in time. Where's Sjors with the popcorn?

 

Looking forward to the all new and improved Licorne II Mark.

[NenadM]

... waiting ... to be cannibalized ...

 

I like it !

[captainbob]

Mark,

 

You might use the MK1 for a ship wreck diorama.

 

Bob

[capnharv2]

Or a shipyard diorama. Remember the Frigate Constellation was cannibalized for the Sloop Constellation.

[themadchemist]

Wow, I've been off practicing my carving and checked in to MSW to find this surprise. What a brave attitude to restart such a large endeavor but as I've learned, that is just the way the ship building business works out sometime. Not stepping back was maybe what caused such disasters as the Wasa disaster.

 

I'm sure there is no fun in making such a momentous decision, but continuing while knowing would have destroyed the future of fun on the build. Sometimes the biggest setbacks are what make the journey so much more interesting, even through the disappointment. I think its good for beginners like myself to learn this lesson quickly and thank you for letting us experience it with you. Your not only an outstanding moderator but a shining example of this hobbies great builders and I consider you a mentor as you've help teach and motivate me in my endeavor towards always becoming better at this hobby.

 

I hope your old build log remains in the forum and you might consider linking it in your first post here, kind of like a ship wreck for others to see that even the best laid plans sometime go awry and require drastic measures to correct. I've always believed we learn WAY more from our mistakes then our successes and there is true benefit for others builder (especially new builders) to witness the issues of others and understand that this is part of the path to being better.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more FUN.

 

On a side note, As I looked over my ANCRE Le Requin plans yesterday and thought about your experience here I questioned....

I've considered ordering the Amati Xebec plans and building a POB (I prefer the smaller 1:60) as a practice run before attempting a full POF. Something to help get a feel for the shape and lay of the ship. You mentioned the problems of using 2 sets of plans and I'd use each set for each build ( i.e. ANCRE for the 1:48 POF and the Amati for the 1:60 POB). My main reasoning for this is I'm lazy and don't wish to rescale the 1:48 plans to 1:60.

Would you recommend this as a good practice or a waste of time. I guess what I'm asking, had you build a POB structure prior to the POF, would it have helped point out issues and helped prevent this for you?

Thanks for your sharing of experience, I find living vicariously though others builds very helpful in learning. As I start my 2nd year building I am amazed at the levels I've achieved and all credit goes to MSW and her community. Without MSW I'd have surely given up in frustration. It really makes me appreciate those that have build prior to the internet forums for support. 

 

To one of the best, Mark!   Cheers and may the sailing be smooth from here for you!

Edited January 27, 2014 by themadchemist

[SkerryAmp]

This truly should be awesome!!

 

Can't wait!

 

=)

[popeye the sailor]

that's the spirit Mark............don't let no moss grow under those wheels of yorn!   hey.......whilst we're wait'in fer the festivities ta start,  how's about we gits that Gallegar fella over there,  ta put a whoop'in on that carcass afta ya done stripp'in 'er.....whaddya say???

 

{bet spell check hates me now........HUH!!!!!} :D :D

[Piet]

Hello Mark,

 

I have not been ignoring you, far from that.  My heart goes out to you and wish you all the best with your renewed efforts.  I like to add my thoughts to your very brave decision to start over with your build.  I fully understand your motives, when something is just not fixable to your satisfaction then there is really no other choice.

I have torn up many a drawing or watercolor pieces because it was not to my satisfaction and besides that I could never sell such a piece with my name on it.  Several oil paintings have been scraped down and over-paintd for the same reason.   Right now i have such a piece on my drawing table, it'll be torn up.

 

I like to think that your bold step is a motivation to others, not so much as to arbitrarily wreck a model and start over but to check and recheck drawings , guide material, etc. to make sure everything jibes.  

Yes, I had to redo several things on my submarine model because I received data after I assumed how things looked like without having the real drawings.

 

I'll also be following your new build and with all the experience you have now gained it'll be a master piece.

 

Cheers,

 

 

[42rocker]

I have a set of Hahn's plans for this and will try to follow what changes that you make and someday maybe I'll give it a go also. To many others things to do between now and then for me.

So I'll be sitting back watching the first string go in to do their thing.

 

Lots of Good Wishes to you on this!!

 

Later Tim

[cookster]

Hi Mark, I quietly followed your first Licorne build and thought you were doing a fine job, but I also understand your frustration with things that cause errors, and mistakes, and once they start compounding on each other they begin to spiral out of control.  We the builders are our own worst critics, as it should be, so we must please ourselves first before anyone else.  Being a fellow perfectionist we must always try do our best, but also realize that at some point our best is a good as it's going to get - whether that stacks up to a master builder or not is not the point.  

 

I was sorry to see you start over, but I fully understand your reasoning. And, more than likely the lessons you learned on V1 will quickly apply in a positive way on V2 and you'll not only have better results but faster as well!

 

Good luck!

[mtaylor]

Thanks again for the wonderful comments and support everyone.

 

One of the previous problems I had was no definitive reference points.  This led to more than a few errors in the heat of battle... err.. building. 

 

I'm adding some things to the frame drawings...  the cutline is being defined as are the wale locations, gunport, and deck clamps.  Hahn defines these on his framing diagram but then suggests that we cut up his plans and use them to mark up the hull...     I'm planning on "nicking" gently the frame at some of these points such as cutline, wales, putting in a nub to mount the deck clamps on, and as before, pre-cutting out the gunport area.   I've also marked the frame drawings with lines at the outside/bottom edge of the build board so I don't make the frames over long.

 

The frame in the pic doesn't have any gunport work but is representative and I still have another 54 frames to do... 

 

Lastly, I've mounted the framing diagram (since it has 95% of the reference points I need) on a piece of Masonite.  When I'm done verifying each frame, I'll glue a strip of wood to overlay the baseboard line.  This will give me a positive reference point when using the EdT Measuring Tool.  Again, I know I had some issues getting the bottom end dead on the line for the base board consistently. 

 

For those who haven't see it, it's a great tool for transferring reference points from plans to the build.  It came from Ed's Naiad build.  Mine is made from boxwood with some brass fittings and a steel thumbscrew.

 

[mtaylor]

Footnotes to a build log.

 

I'll update this one periodically as I find stuff that's not "correct" in the sense of the way things were actually done.

 

1) The framing and frame spaces are not correct.  Hahn used the English method and not the French.  The French didn't use cant frames or sistered frames at this point in time. Hahn's information on room and spaces was incorrect.  Which, is another good reason to fully plank.  However, primary Admiralty Orders:  all ships to be fully planked..  <mumble mumble>

 

2) Mast tops and details such as blocks.... again, these are English.  The French parts were different.

 

3) Cannon.   Once again, these are English and not French.

[NMBROOK]

Great to see you back in the saddle Mark It is really surprising that there are so many errors in Harold Hahn's plans.My only question Mark,is as you intend to fully plank,why not produce one piece frames from ply and have a solid area below the lower deck if this area is to be covered?Just curious,so please don't bite my head off

Kind Regards Nigel

Edited January 29, 2014 by NMBROOK

[ChrisLBren]

I agree with Nigel - why not just build her POB since Hahns plans do not depict accurate framing and you intend to fully plank anyway.  Frolich has a couple magnificent examples of POB builds in his book that look better than quite a few full frame builds to say the least.  

Edited January 29, 2014 by ChrisLBren

[mtaylor]

No biting...    That's a fair and valid question and I did think about it to the point I went looking for wood.  The bad news there was that the available ply is all warped beyond belief.  I tried two DIY home improvement stores and 3 art supply stores.   The DIY stores had 1/4" ply (nothing smaller), very warped and one side was horrible being rough and splintery and full of knots.  I asked at both and they said "that's what we get lately.. it's all coming from (fill in Asian country... the big one)".  The art stores between the 3 of them didn't have enough (either 1/8" or 3/16") to fill my needs and their wood while better, still gave concerns as it was warped and only 3-ply and not 5-ply which is more stable.  I dunno... maybe it's because it's winter? 

 

So.. I told myself, I need the practice.