Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

dkuehn · August 17, 2020

22 hours ago, dkuehn said:

Just ordered the Flirt kit. I tried to order a couple times with WorldPay and kept getting some fatal error and couldn't complete the purchase. I just tried Paypal and it went through fine. Now I sit back and anticipate its arrival...

Damn, I just ordered this thing yesterday (Sunday) and the UPS tracking email I just got says it will be to my house on Wednesday. That's a heck of a lot faster than I would have guessed, UK to California. I guess I won't be sitting back and anticipating very long. 😃

James H · August 17, 2020

1 hour ago, dkuehn said:

Damn, I just ordered this thing yesterday (Sunday) and the UPS tracking email I just got says it will be to my house on Wednesday. That's a heck of a lot faster than I would have guessed, UK to California. I guess I won't be sitting back and anticipating very long. 😃

UPS seem to be the most consistent out of the couriers I've experienced of recent.

Wahka_est · August 17, 2020

Chris is correct about lineup of kits before big developments. Eventually is bussiness and there must be income for that development period.

MSW has many members with different opinions what he should develop and im sure he takes that account if it matches with his goals.

Lets not forget that there isnt anyone else besides Chuck who discusses what members would like do see in the future....correct me if im wrong.

In other words im sure many will 100% support your decision on developments no matter what it is.

Keep up the superb work and we cant wait to see your new develooments for upcoming years.

BobG · August 17, 2020

7 hours ago, chris watton said:

There will be quite a lull after the Duchess of Kingston, as I will need to work out what to do next.

There are still a couple of larger (95-108 foot) brigs I would like to do, but am wary about developing too much of the same type.

This is a very interesting conversation and it's exciting to see you pondering the development of your next models.

I'm sure I'm going to be an outlier in this discussion since my interests in ship modeling is very broad and eclectic. I'm only a couple of years into the hobby and so far I've built a New England dory, a small Croation fishing boat, the Medway Longboat and I'm currently working on a racing sailboat, the Pen Duick. My next build and first ship with guns will be the Flirt and I have the Lady Isabella in my queue. So, as you can see, I don't specialize in a certain era or history like many modelers do especially those who are deep into the great, warships of the Age of Sail. I enjoy exploring many different styles of ships and maritime history.

That said, I'd be cautious of building too many ships that are very similar except for their history per se. At least for me, I would be less interested in another brig that, at least in appearance, was very similar to the Flirt even if it was importantly different in its naval history. Others, however, who are aficionados of the particular era of these ships, would probably love to add another brig to their fleet of models. Again, for me, I appreciate the variety that you currently offer including the fifi and zulu along with the Speedy and the Flirt and the upcoming Dutchess of Kingston.

Another example of offering a variety of models that has been very successful is what Chuck has done with his Syren models: a longboat (Medway Longboat), a royal barge (Queen Anne Barge), a cutter (Cheerful) and a 32 gun frigate (the Winchelsea). He is also considering a cross section of the Winnie as a possible new model next in his lineup.

I was pleasantly surprised and happy to see that you decided to add the Lady Eleanor and the Lady Isabella to your selection of models. They're not everyone's cup of tea but my guess is that they have been fairly popular and we are seeing quite a few build logs of them here of MSW. I would love to see you continue to venture outside of your primary interests in the great warships in the development of your models. I think there is a market for variety of high quality models with excellent materials and instructions in many categories of ship modeling.

I also think that there is a place for simply making a better, high quality, more historically accurate model of some of the favorite, famous warships that are already offered by other companies. I have noticed that the builders of these popular models often encounter the same frustrating problems with some aspects of the kits including parts that do not fit right, errors in the instructions and plans, and historical inaccuracies that are rarely ever corrected by the ship modeling company. Experienced modelers generally find ways to overcome these problems but it would be nice to have kits of some of these classic models that are very much improved over what is currently offered.

As I mentioned to Chuck in another post, I think that Syren and Vanguard are pushing the envelope of excellence in the development of model ship kits today and CAF Models seems to be up and coming also. This is a breath of fresh air to this hobby and wish you all much success.

Just my rather inexperienced, "outlier" 2 cents worth....

BobG · August 17, 2020

3 hours ago, ccoyle said:

That depends on how one defines the word "yacht." America's Cup racers are relatively well-represented (numerous versions of America, Mamoli's Puritan, Amati's Endeavour, etc.), but the really elegant sailing and motor yachts of yesteryear are not on anyone's radar. Chris may recall that at one time I suggested that he look into doing a kit of Coronet, which is currently being restored at the International Yacht Restoration School, so lots of info on her construction should be available. Sadly, though, I think that a kit of any of these glamorous vessels would only ever appeal to a small slice of our membership, since they don't have the requisite lots of guns. So as Chris hinted, something like this is probably best reserved until after he gets an established basic lineup in place.

There's room for much improvement in these models and I would be all over them if Chris ever decided to offer any models of these beautiful boats.

glbarlow · August 17, 2020

I too want to applaud Chris (and Chuck) for sharing and soliciting the input of others. I'm sure we all respect it is his nickel on the line when it comes time to make decisions. My input is its great to have a diverse line, and I agree not to have too many models that are essentially the same - the reverse side is an eclectic line up may have the reverse impact with buyers not seeking him out because they don't know what he does. I think Chris' philosophy of making models everyone can build with clear instructions, expert design, and quality laser cut material will set him apart, but that it should be a reasonably bracketed range of products. I think Chris is doing this by a time period of sailing ships, so that makes sense to me.

Bobbuild · August 17, 2020

How about a POF kit? I think there might be some interest?

Another thought royal yachts from @17-18 century such as Fubbs, Royal Caroline

chris watton · August 17, 2020

Thanks guys, for the input, much appreciated. I have settled on my next kit, as it is a no brainer.

In the meantime, I still have a lot to do for Duchess of Kingston, and Jim is building the second prototype model for me, to make sure it goes together as well as it should, and taking pictures of the building stages. These will be used in the building manual.

One thing, though, I am not sure I ever want to revisit stuff I have done before (with just two exceptions), so no Bounty's, Endeavour's, especially/absolutely/definitely no more Victory's. There are still plenty of subjects out there that are perhaps not as well known, but look beautiful when built (Fly being a perfect example). The period between 1770 and early 1780's are rife with such examples, and my initial/intended line up is full of such vessels, new stuff rather than rehashes..

I think I will do a couple more kits like the fishing boats in the future, though, as these have proved quite popular.

Malcolm Greig · August 17, 2020

ccoyle mentions the Caldercraft Mars. I brought it in 2005 and after much stopping and starting have only a few hours work to finish it. I wonder if Chris designed this brig? It was a pretty straight forward build for a novice. An old school modeler Keith Julier favorably reviewed it and that's why I brought it.

Looking forward to building Chris's Alert next and then I'll contemplate my next purchase. Not sure about which kit but certain it will be from Vanguard.

regards

Malcolm

chris watton · August 17, 2020

10 minutes ago, Malcolm Greig said:

ccoyle mentions the Caldercraft Mars. I brought it in 2005 and after much stopping and starting have only a few hours work to finish it. I wonder if Chris designed this brig? It was a pretty straight forward build for a novice. An old school modeler Keith Julier favorably reviewed it and that's why I brought it.

Looking forward to building Chris's Alert next and then I'll contemplate my next purchase. Not sure about which kit but certain it will be from Vanguard.

regards

Malcolm

I did design that one, and it is one of only two models that I would like to 'revisit' one day, as I love the lines and the rake. It was actually called HMS Orestes when in British hands, Mars being the Dutch name for this privateer before capture.

BobG · August 17, 2020

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

I did design that one, and it is one of only two models that I would like to 'revisit' one day, as I love the lines and the rake. It was actually called HMS Orestes when in British hands, Mars being the Dutch name for this privateer before capture.

That would be a beauty and a very welcome model. Do it, Chris!

Jorge Hedges · August 26, 2020

On 8/5/2020 at 7:51 PM, ErnieL said:

You should see my 1/32 aircraft kit stash. It truly defies description.

I'll post a pic of my 1/35 military miniatures collection as well so we can compare...! When I got my first wooden model ship kit, my wife was like..." another hobby?!?" LOL!!!

Edwardkenway · August 26, 2020

On 8/17/2020 at 10:20 PM, chris watton said:

I did design that one, and it is one of only two models that I would like to 'revisit' one day, as I love the lines and the rake. It was actually called HMS Orestes when in British hands, Mars being the Dutch name for this privateer before capture.

What was the other design you would revisit Chris, apart from Mars, just out of curiosity?

James H · August 26, 2020

3 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

What was the other design you would revisit Chris, apart from Mars, just out of curiosity?

I know, and I can’t wait!

(...despite me trying to convince him to do Foudroyant!)

BobG · August 26, 2020

I thought I would put in a request for Chris' consideration since we are speculating about what models he might have in mind to eventually add to his selection. I love the sleek lines and lateen sails of the Chebec also called Xebex or Chebeque. These fast warships are incredibly beautiful in my opinion and I would love to see Chris make a model kit for one of them someday.

MEDDO · August 26, 2020

Bob I like that idea

mtaylor · August 26, 2020

10 hours ago, Jorge Hedges said:

I'll post a pic of my 1/35 military miniatures collection as well so we can compare...! When I got my first wooden model ship kit, my wife was like..." another hobby?!?" LOL!!!

Jorge,

If you post them, please put them in the Shore Leave area so they don't take over Chris's topic.

Thanks.

chris watton · August 26, 2020

Cannot say yet, as the 'other' revisit is a way off.

I am back at work now, so time is limited again, dammit, but I have just started designs for my 7th kit, which will have gun ports integrated with the hull frames/bulkheads.

Also, today I received my samples (3-d prints at this time, will have the nice resin castings sometime next month) of another 32 pounder and 18 pounder (latter a frigate 18 pounder, but not my 7th kit, that's for later..), plus 18, 24 and 32 pounder carronade barrels and finally a late entry, an early (1780) 12 pounder carronade barrel with trunnions. Will laser cut the carriages for them when I have time and take pics. I have sent PE files to be done, so these will be offered as a complete unit, carriage, barrel and PE parts.

chris watton · August 28, 2020

I had my 3-d printed samples arrive yesterday for the carronades and 32 and 18 pounder barrels, the 3-d files are now with my resin castor, who will printed them and use them for the masters for the black resin castings.

One change I have asked my castor to make is to remove the threaded bar at the rear of each carronade and replace with a hole to which a length of brass will be pushed through to simulate the threaded bar. It is too delicate to cast, and all broke on my 3-d printed samples.

I have included a couple of (very bad) pics, showing them on their respective carriages. I am still awaiting the PE for each, most noticeable on the carronade beds, which will have PE rear wheels.

There is a 32, 24 and 18 pounder standard carronade, plus an early (1780) 12 pounder, with options for early slide or wheeled carriage - looks very 'stumpy'...

Joint bolt and blocks are integrated with the carronade assemblies, and all that is required to fit it to slot them into the sliding upper bed, so no fiddly work required.

Wahka_est · August 28, 2020

I like how you constantly inform us, how you try to achive better quality etc!
Keep us posted!

hollowneck · August 28, 2020

Bob,

That "Chebec model" is an extremely nice example of this class of period Middle Eastern warships. If I may ask, from where did you retrieve these photos?

This model was my second build - years ago - and it is an Amati kit that I modified (Xebec-1/64). I believe it is still offered by them.

This class of vessel is a radical departure from Western European ship designs. The hull designs are quite different but the dramatic visual impact comes from the multiple lateen-rigged sails(especially when they are bright red!).

I've built numerous models since the one shown here but many people have commented to me over the years that this is one of their favorites.

I christened my "Xebec" model with a unique name: SyfAllah: The Sword of God. This is a historic deep dive into the conflict on the Barbary Coast with the U.S., circa late 18th, early 19-C, a fascinating history.

Chris could easily design a superb version of this ship and it would likely be very popular. I'd even build it again if it was on offer!

Ron

BobG · August 28, 2020

Hello Ron, that's a beautiful model you built!

I found the photos on this website which has full views and detailed views: https://www.modelships.de/Schebecke-Le-Requin/Le-Requin_eng.htm

Amati and Occre both still have models of this type of ship. I think they are incredibly beautiful and my previous post has certainly generated quite a it of interest. I think it would be a very popular model for either Chris or Chuck if one of them decided to create a new chebec kit.

chris watton · August 29, 2020

I do like the looks of the xebec, but not on my 'must do' list yet, as there are at least two kits of this out there that make up into very fine models. Right now, I want to develop kits that haven't been done before for a completely fresh range.

That is not to say I won't, I probably will if things are successful, but for now, I just want to concentrate on developing from my original 'wish list'..

glbarlow · August 29, 2020

4 hours ago, chris watton said:

developing from my original 'wish list'..

As you should

hollowneck · September 1, 2020

On 8/28/2020 at 5:58 PM, BobG said:

Hello Ron, that's a beautiful model you built!

I found the photos on this website which has full views and detailed views: https://www.modelships.de/Schebecke-Le-Requin/Le-Requin_eng.htm

Amati and Occre both still have models of this type of ship. I think they are incredibly beautiful and my previous post has certainly generated quite a it of interest. I think it would be a very popular model for either Chris or Chuck if one of them decided to create a new chebec kit.

Many thanks, Bob. Thanks for that link to modelships.de. I'd forgotten about that site. There are superb models exhibited there, the Xebec just one of many. The photos are all pro-level. Big sensors, studio lighting...and last, but not least, museum-quality models! Like Glenn, I also believe that Chris (Vanguard) should "stick to the ( U.K.) knitting," for now; clearly, his wheelhouse.

GuntherMT · September 1, 2020

Amazing how fast your development of new models has gone Chris, and I love the look of the kits you have produced so far, although I've not purchased any as I'm in a bit of an 'off' period in my model building and already have several started that I need to get back to and finish someday.

It was touched on briefly recently about the thoughts of doing a more modern 'yacht' of some kind, and when that was mentioned the one that immediately popped into my mind was the beautiful SY Adix, a 3 masted schooner that you can actually charter right now! Not sure how anyone else feels, but I would have a hard time thinking of a more beautiful vessel. I would love to build something like this (well, a model of her) someday.

Best wishes to you and your continued success in this crazy business!

BobG · September 1, 2020

58 minutes ago, GuntherMT said:

It was touched on briefly recently about the thoughts of doing a more modern 'yacht' of some kind, and when that was mentioned the one that immediately popped into my mind was the beautiful SY Adix, a 3 masted schooner

I'd be all over a model of that beautiful yacht in a moment's notice!

glbarlow · September 1, 2020

Guys, I think this point has been asked and answered.

chris watton · September 1, 2020

Yachts are very very nice, and again, one day, if if I manage to make a real living from this, I will have the luxury of choosing more subjects that perhaps demand a lot of (very expensive) suites of shiny brass fittings, like the yacht above would demand.

Again, right now, I want to concentrate on the subjects I think people will like most, with the majority of new developments being fresh subjects (not released as a kit anywhere before). I have about 5 or 6 years worth of subjects to tackle already in my 'Future Developments' folder, and range from the 1750's to the first decade of the 19th Century. This is the period that interests me more than any other.

I am now back at work (Just got home), so developments will slow down again, as I am back to my two jobs instead of spending all of my time on the one (I really want to do...)

chris watton · September 17, 2020

As Jim helps me with completing the Duchess of Kingston model, I started designs on my first medium/large development (a littler larger than a Fly type kit), trying different methods in certain areas to allow more gun deck detail to seen when complete. This hull is over 600mm long and incorporates the gun port frames into the hull structure. But, as I said, this is a very early stage of the design, and this is the first time I have put the parts together, so I can get a feel for what needs to be done, and what I can and cannot get away with...

All cut in MDF, only the gun deck in ply. All quarterdeck beams are just placed, not glued..