ancre La Belle Poule 1765 by mtaylor - Scale 1:64 - POB - French Frigate from ANCRE plans

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and the comments.  I hope to have a photo update this weekend.

 

Thanks, Pat.    It's an interesting approach.  The laser I love as everything is precise and no sawdust!!!!!!    

 

I came across a few challenges... mostly my own doing.   The 3mm lite ply was not a good choice for the false keel.  Even braced the thing still had some flex.   So, instead of just filling in the bow and stern ends with balsa, I'm filling in the whole hull.  For the most part, it's just 1/4" thick blocks of wood to hold the bulkheads and also, once sanded to shape will give me a solid surface for planking.  The fore and aft areas are pretty much solid balsa due to the radical shaping. 

 

 

[mtaylor]

Well, the is filled with balsa except for the area in front of bulkhead #1.  I'm going to hold off until I get most of the sanding done as it presents a few challenges that need to be sorted and having things close will help me out.  Once sanded, the forward area filled and sanded, I'll move on to the interior  and laying out the gundeck ports, etc.

 

Here's pics... ugly but ready for various instruments of destruction to be used.

 

[lmagna]

It will be interesting to see what the hull looks like when you get done with the sanding Mark. It almost looks like you will be able to skip the first planking and go directly to the second! 

[marktiedens]

Actually,it looks like a good Lego ship.  Seriously,nice work you are doing .

 

Mark

[cog]

bit hard to ascend those steps. Have you read the remarks on balsa filling blocks by @Ab Hoving in Marcus' build log. Quite interesting

 

finally, now we get some fresh air, instead of charred wood  

[druxey]

Carl: he's building his model a step at a time. Seems logical to me.

[wefalck]

Didn't follow this thread so far, as it is not really 'my' period. However, looks like an interesting approach with the shop laser-cut parts. Just got myself a little toy laser-cutter to play around with ...

[Bill Tuttle]

Mark,

 

I am pulling up a chair on this build really late in the game after you have worked through your problems so far. I built a plank on bulkhead from a kit about twenty years ago so I understand some of the problems you have suffered through on a much smaller basis. I am getting up there in age but it seems like I remember Dave Roach who owned Pier Books years ago telling me there was a forum on this build which made me particularly interested in your efforts but I see I must be mistaken since there does not appear to be anything other than the French forum. Nevertheless, I look forward to following this build and admire the work and your treatment of the problems so far. 

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the comments and the likes.

 

I had my "aha" moment on the bow this morning so and filling and shaping the balsa.  Now if I can just get the stern right.  I've fed the scrap box quite a bit lately figuring that out.

 

 

On 11/16/2019 at 9:05 PM, lmagna said:

It will be interesting to see what the hull looks like when you get done with the sanding Mark. It almost looks like you will be able to skip the first planking and go directly to the second! 

 

i was only planning on doing one planking, Lou.   It will be pear up to the gunports and then boxwood above that. 

 

23 hours ago, marktiedens said:

Actually,it looks like a good Lego ship.  Seriously,nice work you are doing .

 

Mark

 

Maybe I should just paint all the pieces in wild colors and call it good?    Nah... I'll do it right.

22 hours ago, cog said:

bit hard to ascend those steps. Have you read the remarks on balsa filling blocks by @Ab Hoving in Marcus' build log. Quite interesting

 

finally, now we get some fresh air, instead of charred wood  

 

I must have missed his comment, Carl.   No more charred wood for a bit though I do have some waiting to be installed like the false deck which gets planked.

 

13 hours ago, druxey said:

Carl: he's building his model a step at a time. Seems logical to me.

 

Touche'.  

10 hours ago, wefalck said:

Didn't follow this thread so far, as it is not really 'my' period. However, looks like an interesting approach with the shop laser-cut parts. Just got myself a little toy laser-cutter to play around with ...

Lasers are interesting tools.  It does take some testing to sort out the cut line as opposed to just cutting outside the line with a saw and sand to spec. The nice thing is that it's repeatable.  

2 hours ago, biltut said:

Mark,

 

I am pulling up a chair on this build really late in the game after you have worked through your problems so far. I built a plank on bulkhead from a kit about twenty years ago so I understand some of the problems you have suffered through on a much smaller basis. I am getting up there in age but it seems like I remember Dave Roach who owned Pier Books years ago telling me there was a forum on this build which made me particularly interested in your efforts but I see I must be mistaken since there does not appear to be anything other than the French forum. Nevertheless, I look forward to following this build and admire the work and your treatment of the problems so far. 

I've been following some builds on a Polish site and French site.  So I see a variety of methods to get to the same place.    For a very short period of time, I did think about learning lofting and doing actual frames, then reality set in.  

[michael mott]

Hi Mark great to see that you are building a new ship, I must admit I like this method more than the way you are building the other ship.

 

Michael

[Old Collingwood]

Great work mark  -  I love the idea of the frame fillers  strength+alignment+more surface area, I think its a brillaint idea.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

checking in on your progress Mark.   plywood thickness is a peeve of mine.   I've seen so many kits where the bulkheads and keel spine is way too thick for the model.........the Sergal Thermopylae is a prime example.  the scale doesn't match the thickness and one comes out with a very bulky frame.  I would have suggested the approach you did here........thinner plywood and cap the keel spine with wider strip stock........this creates it's own rabbits for planking    but thinner plywood does create another problem....what you've done here.  filling in between the bulkheads is a good idea......you won't end up with a wonky looking hull after planking.  at least you won't have to work around leveling and straight edge apparatus as you plank { it would look like the hull is in traction}.

 

if I wasn't such a stubborn 'ole bugger,  I'd be clamoring for a laser cutter for Christmas!!!  stellar job thus far  

Edited November 22, 2019 by popeye the sailor

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and comments.  Sanding is coming along.  Rather a combination of cutting, hacking, and sanding.  I have the center 4 areas in close and am starting at the stern to work my way forward. 

 

I'm sort of torn, Michael.  This way is faster than frames but has it's own set of challenges.    

 

I will have "thin" the keel, bow, and stern just a tad after it's planked.  I'm between 1/32 and 1/64 inch off for the planking I'm projecting to use.  Yeah.. picky, picky. 

 

 

[Srodbro]

I’ve been following your build with great interest. This is going to be a great project. Your recent posts cause me to raise a question:  On a ship with a complicated hull shape, that will present huge ( at least to this modeler) planking challenges, why not create a solid ( bread-and-butter) hull lay-up to begin with?  
 

Admittedly this question is coming from a rank neophyte modeler, clearly out of the league of you and most of your followers, but it seems to me most plank-on-frame and plank-on-bulkhead scratchbuilds wind up adding so much blocking that one has nearly a solid hull in the end, anyway. Why not start with one?  Obviously, if one desires to model any interior detail a solid hull is out of the question, but aside from that, I am at a loss to come up with drawbacks to using a solid hull method. I am, of course, ignoring the satisfaction one may enjoy approximating true shipbuilding techniques, and the fact that one may have a sizable investment in technology and tools aiming to perfect POF or POB modeling (which can be big considerations), but to more quickly go from 2D plans to a 3D object, a bread and butter lay-up seems the ticket. ( Kit manufactures, I assume, find producing POF and POB kits more economical than producing kits with solid hulls AND planking to cover them)
 

I apologize for sounding critical ... that’s not the intent. Merely trying to ascertain the fascination with POF method when scratch building. Maybe it just comes down to personal preference. 
 

Thanks. Sorry for the soap-boxing in your log. I’ll enjoy following your progress. 

[BETAQDAVE]

Steve

    One advantage that I can see (having done most of my ships with the bread and butter method) with the POB method would be that you don’t have to constantly try to keep track of station lines to check the fit of the hull profile templates, as the frames do that for you.

[KeithAug]

Good progress Mark - as you know I use balsa filler blocks a lot. I have never had any problems with cracking of the overlaid planks.

[mtaylor]

Steve.

I never thought of B&B.  Well, too late now.    I've got the tool investment so might as well carry on.  I did give some serious thought to reworking the plans to POF but thought while building is easier, the learning curve would be a bear.  And making the frames is time consuming even if you do them Hahn style.

 

Dave,  good point.

 

Thanks Keith. I've been relooking at some of yours and other logs that used balsa.   I'm just hoping to get "clean" hull and have finally figured what tools I need to use to get it "right".  

[src]

Finally getting a chance to catch up Mark. Looks great so far. Any progress since your last post?

Sam

[ChadB]

Looks good Mark! I can't wait to see it when the filler blocks are sanded down and we see that sweet tumblehome!

 

 

Chad

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and comments.  And also for your patience.

 

I probably have 80% of the starboard side sanded and nothing sanded on the port and nothing done as far as framing to area above the gun deck.   Things are going slowly.  A big part of the problem is the sanding dust.  I've not used balsa and Lite ply before. Even with two shop vacs and air purifier running and facemask my sinuses scream after about an hour's work.  So abandon ship so to speak and go do other things in the apartment for a few hours.  The workshop also doubles as my "office", "computer room" and general hideout.   I'm starting a new sinus med the doctor recommended and I hope that will help.  Now if the weather warmed up, I could probably sit outside and be done sanding in a day or two.....  

[src]

Mark,

Dust can be a real bear once you are sensitized to it. Baltic Birch really gets to me, I have to leave my respirator on for several minutes and run the dust collection at work a few extra minutes or I end up sneezing repeatedly.

Would something like this, but an a smaller scale help? Should be pretty easy to build one, just a simple box and some sort of grating on the top over the filters.

 

 

Sam

[mtaylor]

Thanks Sam.  I went back to the fluticosone nasal spray today and breathing is much better.  I also re-positioned the vacs and am seeing less dust settling.  If I wake up tomorrow stuffy... I'm getting a better mask.  Luckily not much more sanding on this beast.  Luckily, after this it's some harder woods that won't need much sanding like the planking.

 

I thought seriously about making a hood or similar but don't have the room at this apartment.  But, once I'm done with the hull and filler, the worst is over.  Now if it would just warm up to say 60 degrees F, I'd go sit on the porch and let the wind carry the sawdust away....  <wishful thinking>

[Roger Pellett]

Mark,

 

Why can’t you remove most of this wood with a half round wood rasp or one of those cabbage grater type tools?  This would generate much less fine dust

 

Roger

[cog]

Roger,

 

Wouldn't that create large tears in the bulkheads (once you get there) Usually those rasps are a wee bit rough for this. Besides, there is the difference between the hard and the soft wood which could deliver a surprising effect whilst rasping. It's just a thought as I have no experience with rasping the combination, and am used to cutting soft wood like balsa (with a knife) if I need to take off slivers, and sand the last bit

[Roger Pellett]

I’m only suggesting use of rasps for initial shaping.  When you get close to the bulkheads, it’s time to get out the sandpaper.

[mtaylor]

Well.. good news from the doc here.  It's not the dust.  I've got the winter whezzes... sniffles, sore throat, etc. but no fever.  He says if the steroid helps, use it for no more than a week.  And surgical mask is must.  Damn balsa dust just floats till the air current pulls it towards the air purifier or one of the running shop vacs.  Just can't run the vacs 24/7.  

 

Roger, I tried a rasp at first but it just shredded the soft balsa.  So for now, I'm using an Xacto knife, a small Xacto saw blade and cutting it down before sanding.  Along the way, I'm checking and rechecking the shape using cutouts of the lines drawing mounted to cardboard.   I really should have gone a bit slower, thought things out better and cut the filler closer to the fit I needed.  Lesson learned.

[BANYAN]

Great to hear that it is not dust related news Mark, and hope you get over the cold soon.    With balsa I have has some good results with a 'sureforn'  which you can get in various shapes and 'grits' (or number of teeth) - the finer ones, while still technically a rasp, the finer ones are much less rough on the wood.  I took the 'blade' out of handle and fitted it to a former (hardwood) to do the various shapes.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 19, 2019 by BANYAN

[mtaylor]

Thanks Pat.   I'll go look the "sureform" and see if it'll work.   I'm just taking my time with this sanding as I want the hull shape as perfect as I can get it.  

[Blue Pilot]

Hi Mark your work is always an inspiration.

 

I don't mean to go to far off topic if I am please let me know but your health problems with the sanding got me thinking I should be waring a mask too.  I asked a friend of mine who does fine woodworking his thoughts.  He told me reactions to the dust can be the result of allergies to certain kinds of wood as others have mentioned above but he said the real danger and most issues come from the sandpaper itself due to micro silica.  I never considered that or that in extreme cases it could lead to Silicosis according to my friend.  So I am glad you mentioned this.  I thought I would bring this up to share with others who like me may be reading MSW or your log and have been too hard headed to ware one.  Looks like I need to go shopping.      

[mtaylor]

Mark,

Thanks for the complement.    We all should be wearing masks and I'm glad you're getting one.