chris watton Posted June 21 Author Share #481 Posted June 21 OK, have asked my sculptor to do something with those hands, and beef up the collars and lapels, as well as chair legs, to help with printing. Just finished first print, only half of the items printed (new printer, so trying again), but I did get a seated and standing figure and table in 48th and 32nd, and the sitting officer and table in 64th. mtaylor, Ryland Craze, jpalmer1970 and 3 others 6 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 21 Author Share #482 Posted June 21 (edited) This is what I got from the first run using a new 3-d printer. Am sure my standard printers are better, or I need to look at settings.. Bases never came out, and a few other bits, so this is what I was left with. Carver is changing the figures for smaller hands and a few other little things Edited June 21 by chris watton jpalmer1970, CiscoH, Oboship and 23 others 22 4 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 21 Share #483 Posted June 21 Maybe I am a bit late here, but the coat definitely appears very ill-fitted from behind: The material appears too thin, following all the body shapes inside (which it shouldn't, broadcloth tends to keep it's own form), and there is no trace of tailoring. The thing is that the back of the coat is composed of several parts with quite rigid seams that ensure that the depicted problem does not happen. References: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-71256 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-71336 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-71607 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-71431 Canute, Nirvana, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thibaultron Posted June 21 Share #484 Posted June 21 Can you show us a graphic of the supported model, the one with the supports that you sent to the printer (like the example for a cannon below)? We may be able to help you with how they are placed. druxey, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 21 Share #485 Posted June 21 I agree with Martes; the coat is fitted using a drop shoulder seam to the back of the shoulder and separate pieces along a curved seam from the rear shoulder down: It give a very elegant line. You can just see the curved seams in the uniform coat photo. Darts in clothes were used once wider bolts of machine-made material became available. Canute, hollowneck, thibaultron and 3 others 4 2 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 21 Share #486 Posted June 21 (edited) And the tails being separated also adds to both rigidness of the structure and elegance of the silhouette. Note that this horizontal seam is usually almost invisible because it's mostly concealed by pocket flaps. Edited June 21 by Martes Canute, mtaylor, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted June 21 Share #487 Posted June 21 Maybe we need to check the denier of their tights too. thibaultron, AJohnson, Canute and 15 others 2 16 SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Harpy - 1796 (production prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 21 Share #488 Posted June 21 (edited) 2 minutes ago, James H said: Maybe we need to check the denier of their tights too. That's "flap" and "breeches" in this case. And their shoes are somewhat too modern. The coats are double-breasted with epaulettes, that puts the timeframe around after 1805, so most likely they should wear half-boots with long trousers, but if we suppose very high-end dress ensemble, the shoes looked differently then and had higher heels and much more prominent buckles. The question is how real you want to make it. Edited June 21 by Martes Canute, mtaylor and druxey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 21 Author Share #489 Posted June 21 For this kind of work, I have to rely on others who are conversant in such disciplines, as digital sculpting is akin to alchemy for me. I this case, I have now decided to take the loss and scrap this project, files have been deleted. Oboship, Canute, thibaultron and 4 others 3 4 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigie65 Posted June 21 Share #490 Posted June 21 Chris, Please reconsider. Look at 1/64 in a cabin the number of buttons and invisible seams matter not a jot. There is nothing else out there and you have been brave enough financially to meet the demand that has come from this forum. Landscaper, hollowneck, chris watton and 4 others 7 Cheers Craig Current Build HMS Indefatigable Erycina - Vanguard Models Finished: HM Bomb Vessel Granado - Caldercraft, HMS Pegasus - Victory models, Nisha - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thibaultron Posted June 21 Share #491 Posted June 21 Guys, these were going to be 1/32 to 1/64th scale figures! Many of the things you pointed out would be hard to see on a 1/6th scale figure! AJohnson, hollowneck, JeffT and 8 others 11 Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardeeHarHar Posted June 21 Share #492 Posted June 21 I’ll jump into the fray. All the commentary about fit, etc are all good. However, the images people are critiquing are huge compared to the size of the figures. With my eyes, I can hardly see the figure, let alone a big hand or Ill-fitted coat. That’s not to say the comments aren’t valid, but holy cow I am starting to understand why Chris is saying he is going to punt. Oboship, Ronald-V, tcave and 8 others 11 Brian Current Builds: HMBV Granado 1/64 Caldercraft; HMS Sphinx 1775 by HardeeHarHar - Vanguard Models 1:64-V2 Completed Build: HMS Bounty's Jolly Boat 1/25 Artesania Latina; Master Korabel - 1:36 Yefin Nikonov's Secret Vessel On the Shelf: HMBV Granado 1/48 CAF Model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 22 Share #493 Posted June 22 (edited) 5 hours ago, HardeeHarHar said: However, the images people are critiquing are huge compared to the size of the figures. There are a lot of figures of comparable sizes that take all the details and forms into account. Type "Napoleonic officer 1:64" into google images. There are correctly styled naval figures, and you won't believe what people do with hussar uniforms Even Hornblower figurine made by the same author is all right. But Hornblower stands straight, and this pose is more complex. The problem here is not seams or buttons (although if the sculptor did know about them, it would really help), but loss of overall shape. I am guessing that the author tried to emulate the cloth when changing the pose of the character the cloth behaved incorrectly due to error in rigidity parameters. From technical standpoint it is a bug, and it is (probably) not very difficult to fix. Edited June 22 by Martes chris watton, Canute and mtaylor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyuti Posted June 22 Share #494 Posted June 22 Chris, I feel really sorry for you, things like this must make your life hell. You have always tried to make sure everything you sell is the top of the range or the most innovative as possible to make the lives of the modelling community easier. These figures were beautiful compared to what is out there on the market. At 1/32nd scale an average hand is around 6-7mm long from wrist to end of the longest finger a mm either way would not make a lot of difference. When you talk about buckles on shoes at that scale they are tiny. And at 1/64th they are even smaller and less defined. It is such a shame that you have ended up losing money and time. Regards Guy Ronald-V, thibaultron, Trumper07 and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted June 22 Share #495 Posted June 22 (edited) If i was @chris watton i would be real miffed at the decision he had to make, yet again the same few have nothing positive to say, and now you all go with nothing Edited June 22 by Kevin Canute, CiscoH, hollowneck and 6 others 7 2 Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on All the best Kevin SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On the build table HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 Belle Poule 1834 by Kevin - OcCre - 1/90 - French frigate - started June 2024 - - On hold MHS Britannic by Kevin SD 14 - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 - Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72 U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48 Amerigo Vespucci 1/84 - Panart- HMS Enterprise -CAF - 1/48 Finished Hercules by Kevin - OcCre - 1/50 - Tugboat - Finished - May 2024 Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020 HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 22 Share #496 Posted June 22 (edited) @Kevin, it's the sculptor's hide we are after, not Chris. And that he has taken the money without doing a minimally plausible work by his own - let alone market - standards makes it only worse. I really doubt such "professionals" should be encouraged. Edited June 22 by Martes chris watton, mtaylor and Canute 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Collingwood Posted June 22 Share #497 Posted June 22 On 6/20/2024 at 7:07 PM, hollowneck said: Lovely 3D sculpts for Admiralty-style reveal builds, Chris. I'm assuming these can be had at 1:64. If so, there is some very delicate painting required as well as a removal of the base plinth. Yes but very achievable, I work with 1:56 scale and they are quite easy to paint. OC. mtaylor, Canute, hollowneck and 1 other 4 Current builds 28mm Battle of Waterloo attack on La Haye Saint Diorama. 1/700 HMS Hood Flyhawk with PE, Resin and Wood Decking. Completed works. Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic. HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts. HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine plastic. Black Pearl 1/72 Revell with pirate crew. Revell 1/48 Mosquito B IV Eduard 1/48 Spitfire IX ICM 1/48 Seafire Mk.III Special Conversion 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier FRS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 22 Share #498 Posted June 22 I would urge Chris to reconsider his decision and proceed with this project, it has the makings of being a unique and interesting addition to his range. I was looking forward to making a dio around the figures as I did with the cook figure at 1:48 scale, in addition to having a sitting figure to have in the Great cabin of my 1:64 scale build. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people, and I'm one of them.😞 B.E. mtaylor, Craigie65, DB789 and 7 others 10 Current Build: Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-1:64-scale HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 22 Author Share #499 Posted June 22 Cheers guys. My problem is that the carver I have used from the start seems to have vanished, I can only think that they may have passed away. He was responsible for all natural and carved decoration, both figures and stern/figurehead 3-d prints. I prefer to stick to just one person or company for each discipline used, that way they know exactly what I want and know what they can do. Problems arise when you have to find a replacement for the previous person or company. To try a new sculptor out, I thought the best thing to do was to give them a figure or two to work on. This is the main reference I suplied, along with another two references for the period clothes, from head to foot. I thought at the time that this would be a very nice addition to my figures range: Now, if something is not right, I will not waste my time producing them (the 3-d prints do take a lot of time) and selling something I am not 100% happy with - even though at my main scale, these details will be barely seen, more so when in their cabin with deck beams obscuring a lot of the view. This was to be a 5-part set and would take a lot of time to produce and post process, so if there are doubts about this set, I have no problem abandoning it and turning my attention to kit design, the one thing I do know well and have complete control over. I will give this carver one more chance to get the problems highlighted sorted - so the fat lady hasn't broken into song quite yet. Canute, Blue Ensign, VonHoldinghausen and 25 others 22 6 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRob Posted June 22 Share #500 Posted June 22 42 minutes ago, chris watton said: I will give this carver one more chance to get the problems highlighted sorted - so the fat lady hasn't broken into song quite yet. There is hope finally. I liked the setting a lot, Chris and would have liked to add it into my Sphinx´s cabin. BTW: you mentioned a fat lady, I wouldn´t be in the least offended if there was a Duchess of Kingston, who mustn´t be fat at all in 1/64 . Cheers Rob Knocklouder, Craigie65, mtaylor and 6 others 3 6 Current builds: Shelby Cobra Coupe by DocRob - Model Factory Hiro - 1/12 McLaren Mp4/6 - Ayrton Senna - Fujimi - 1/20 - paused Duchess of Kingston - paused Finished builds: F4U-1A Corsair - Tamiya 1/32 USS Arizona 1/350 Eduard Caudron C.561 French Racing Plane 1/48 Nachtigall on Speed Arado 234 B-2N by DocRob - 1/32 - Fly Renault RE20 Turbo - Tamiya - 1/12 P-38J Wicked Woman - Tamiya - 1/48 AEG G.IV Creature of the Night - WNW - 1/32 "Big Tank" Crocker OHV motorcycle by DocRob - Model Factory Hiro - 1/9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted June 22 Share #501 Posted June 22 (edited) 16 hours ago, chris watton said: I this case, I have now decided to take the loss and scrap this project, files have been deleted I first thought these comments were in jest, such detailed critiques of a small plastic toy. I completely understand and support your decision to scrap it. It’s not your core business, why bother. btw: the guy in that painting seems to have really big hands 🤣 Edited June 22 by glbarlow thibaultron, Canute, KentM and 1 other 4 Regards, Glenn Current Build: Don't know yet. Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 22 Share #502 Posted June 22 Old news Glenn, the project is back on for one last throw of the dice. 👍 I rather think your description of the figure set as small plastic toy a little unkind and dismissive of the hard work that no doubt goes into creating such items. B.E. Nipper, Old Collingwood, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Current Build: Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-1:64-scale HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martes Posted June 22 Share #503 Posted June 22 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said: I rather think your description of the figure set as small plastic toy I think many quite underestimate the state of the market of miniature figures. And those things do set certain expectations. (wargaming enthusiasts can discern specific regiments by eye at this scale and manufacturers know this) This means there is a certain industry standard. Just a couple of examples from image search - in 1/58 (28mm) scale: Edited June 22 by Martes VonHoldinghausen, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted June 22 Share #504 Posted June 22 (edited) 4 hours ago, Blue Ensign said: your description of the figure set as small plastic toy a little unkind and dismissive Sorry you think that. My comment is to the unreasonable expectation for ‘accuracy’ being demanded of Chris for small plastic figures. Being it reminded of the little army men I played with as a kid I’m not why toy isn’t a fair description. More significantly nor can I imagine examining such figures to determine if it had the right shoes, especially once placed on a model. Chris is valuable to our community for his ship designs, not for the outsourced work of a plastic figure that clearly creates such critique. It’s true I have no use for plastic figures (other than my mini-me for fun and scale comparison) so I’ll keep further comments to myself. Frankly I’m surprised Chris is giving it another try, best of luck to him on his next iteration. Edited June 22 by glbarlow thibaultron, mtaylor, Canute and 3 others 6 Regards, Glenn Current Build: Don't know yet. Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowneck Posted June 22 Share #505 Posted June 22 (edited) 11 hours ago, Blue Ensign said: I would urge Chris to reconsider his decision and proceed with this project, it has the makings of being a unique and interesting addition to his range. Chris, please consider this post as my order for one full set of this excellent and interesting 5-piece tableau in 1:64. Please also PM me with the cost, no questions asked. My advice: ignore the "fly specks amongst the pepper" silly-bugger posts here and proceed as you've indicated. Edited June 22 by hollowneck spelling correction Old Collingwood, HardeeHarHar, Nipper and 12 others 15 Ron Director, Nautical Research Guild Secretary/Newsletter Editor, Philadelphia Ship Model Society Former Member/Secretary for the Connecticut Marine Model Society Current Build: Grace & Peace (Wyoming, 6-masted Schooner) Completed Builds: HMS Grecian, HMS Sphinx (as HMS Camilla) Ongakuka Maru, (Higaki Kaisen, It Takes A Village), Le Tigre Privateer, HMS Swan, HMS Godspeed, HMS Ardent, HMS Diana, Russian brig Mercury, Elizabethan Warship Revenge, Xebec Syf'Allah, USF Confederacy, HMS Granado, USS Brig Syren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardeeHarHar Posted June 23 Share #506 Posted June 23 I’ll also request one full set for my Sphinx if you would be so kind Chris! AJohnson, hollowneck, Kevin and 7 others 10 Brian Current Builds: HMBV Granado 1/64 Caldercraft; HMS Sphinx 1775 by HardeeHarHar - Vanguard Models 1:64-V2 Completed Build: HMS Bounty's Jolly Boat 1/25 Artesania Latina; Master Korabel - 1:36 Yefin Nikonov's Secret Vessel On the Shelf: HMBV Granado 1/48 CAF Model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJohnson Posted June 25 Share #507 Posted June 25 On 6/23/2024 at 2:52 AM, HardeeHarHar said: I’ll also request one full set for my Sphinx if you would be so kind Chris! Just catching up on loads of threads, but I too would like to say I would love a set like this (or the eventual iteration of it) - hope you can resurrect a version of it at some point Chris. 😁 Canute, DocRob, Nipper and 3 others 6 Andrew Current builds:- HM Gun-brig Sparkler - Vanguard (1/64) , HMAV Bounty - Caldercraft (1/64) Completed (Kits):- Vanguard Models (1/64) :- HM Cutter Trial , Nisha - Brixham trawler Caldercraft (1/64) :- HMS Orestes(Mars), HM Cutter Sherbourne Paper Shipwright (1/250) :- TSS Earnslaw, Puffer Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBo Posted June 26 Share #508 Posted June 26 On 6/21/2024 at 3:43 PM, glbarlow said: They aren’t real people or sculptures, just toys to put on a model. Besides I think I read somewhere that naval officers of this time period had big hands and small heads 😊 I can remember as a small boy shaking the hands of my Great Grandfather who was a farm labourer for nearly 60 years. It was like shaking a tough leather glove. I would imagine anyone in the naval service for any length of time would have very similar hands. thibaultron, chris watton, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Posted June 26 Share #509 Posted June 26 On 6/22/2024 at 7:54 AM, chris watton said: For this kind of work, I have to rely on others who are conversant in such disciplines, as digital sculpting is akin to alchemy for me. I this case, I have now decided to take the loss and scrap this project, files have been deleted. I agree Chris, I feel sorry for you putting yourself through this especially trying to please the people who critique things that you need a microscope for. Canute, thibaultron, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Current build: HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 by Isaiah - Vanguard models - 1:64 Completed Builds: Perseverance -1807 - by Isaiah - 1:48 - Colonial Brig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightyo Posted June 26 Share #510 Posted June 26 Those figures are fantastic! I can tell that it's been irritating to have them critiqued so much, but having modelers critique the figures to that degree is exactly what you want and need. Very few people have the opportunity to have their products critiqued to that degree before they put them on the market. The critique is what will help to ensure that the figures are top-notch and maximize the number sold. I've already purchased a number of your other figures and don't even intend to put them into a model. I purchased them solely because they are fun look at. I'm sure I'll purchase this most recent set as well. Alan Ryland Craze, BLACK VIKING, Canute and 4 others 7 Alan's POB Build Log HMS Triton 1/64 Alan's POB Build Log USS Syren 1/64 Alan's Build Log Nina 1/106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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