Best HMS Victory kit?

[BikerMart]

Early days yet.

I am cutting my teeth on Billings HMS Endeavour and Billings HMS Bounty.

Next up - HMS Victory - but which one?

I favour Billings because I have made several of their kits in the past - Boulogne Etaples, Nordkap, Evelyn and Elbjorn - and I am comfortable with the quality and level of expertise needed to construct them. Better the devil that you know?

I appreciate that the Billings - and other - kits of HMS Victory might not be exactly historically accurate. And that the Caldercraft kit is probably the most detailed. 

But at the end of the day, are any of the other HMS Victory kits going to give me - a pretty 'average' modeller - any more or less of a good representation of the ship than the Billings kit? 

 

[myxyzptlyk2003]

Hi

Best is always a subjective opinion.      I've built the Caldercraft version and loved the experience.    Prior to that I had attempted one of the other European brands and couldn't finish it due to my perceived lack of quality/detail.     One word of warning.    The Caldercraft kit is huge and requires a very large case if you are going to display it.

[Gregory]

With some time to spare, you might hold out for the New kit from Amati..

 

 

[myxyzptlyk2003]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

With some time to spare, you might hold out for the New kit from Amati..

 

 

I just hope the Amati version isn't going to be like the Caldercraft HMS surprise  ( 6years and counting?)

 

For the original poster.    At this point in time, I would definitely go with the Caldercraft if for the buildability if anything. 

[BikerMart]

Hmm. I'd better start saving then.

The Amati HMS Victory situation reminds me somewhat of an Alan Gibson Somerset and Dorset 2-8-0. This was an 'O' Gauge etched brass locomotive kit. When asked, it was always just a few weeks away from being ready.

 

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

With some time to spare, you might hold out for the New kit from Amati..

 

 

the Amati kit release has been delayed by the pandemic, and yes it has been a long time in coming, designed by our own @chris watton the prortype is being build up by @James H

 

[James H]

Just now, BikerMart said:

Hmm. I'd better start saving then.

The Amati HMS Victory situation reminds me somewhat of an Alan Gibson Somerset and Dorset 2-8-0. This was an 'O' Gauge etched brass locomotive kit. When asked, it was always just a few weeks away from being ready.

 

I'm building the prototype for the manual.

 

This kit has been knocked back by over 12 months because of Covid. Italy was particularly badly hit to start with and all Amati's operations were put on the back burner....including those were closer to release such as Bismarck. No one could have foreseen what was going to happen, and we can't blame Amati for the delays. 

 

If you want to see this built, then check out my build log, and when it restarts again. This is the only site where you'll be able to follow along. 

[Kevin]

 

[Justin P.]

Just to throw a bit of snark in: given what Ive seen of Victory as a model kit, I would say the best one is the one you think you can complete.   

[BikerMart]

24 minutes ago, Justin P. said:

Just to throw a bit of snark in: given what Ive seen of Victory as a model kit, I would say the best one is the one you think you can complete.   

That was what my wife said, too. Pointing at other incomplete projects around the house.....

[mtdoramike]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:43 PM, BikerMart said:

That was what my wife said, too. Pointing at other incomplete projects around the house.....

I agree, most if not all Victory kits or builds require 2-5 years to complete. Now with that out of the way, back to your question, which I hate and which pops up every now and again whether it be a victory, constitution or what ever. A boat or ship model kit is a kit is a kit is a kit, no more no less. I have built well over 100 kits of various subjects over the years by many manufactures and have found that all kits no matter of the manufacture are good quality kits. Now whether the subject model builds into an acceptable representation of the subject is totally up to you AND NOT THE KIT. A kit is only a starting point of the journey you choose to take, but the quality of the build will be all on you as the builder. To me, the research of the subject is far more important than the quality of the kit, which can be changed, manipulated into what ever you want it to be. My point is, if you find something not historically accurate about the model per the kit, change it and make it so.

 

You will never get a museum quality model from a kit even though the manufactures touts it as such. I rarely ever build a model based on the kit. To me the kit is only the starting point. So to answer your question, all of them and none of them.

Edited October 23, 2021 by mtdoramike

[mtaylor]

I go along with what Mike says about kits being kits being kits.   One persons "great kit" is another persons nightmare.  However, once you hit a point in your model building skills, nothing will stop you from improving any kit with a bash.   And "bashing" is encouraged by all means as it usually improves the resulting model.  I've done that myself in the past.. took a kit that really had no connection with reality and turned it into one that did (USS Constellation).  It's not hard, takes some research and figuring out what you can do and what you can't.   

 

As footnote.. if you think the Billings is the best then go with that as others could argue about other kits since "best" is a rather vague term and means many things to many people.   Then do your diligence and research and have at it to make the best you can.

 

One final note.. look up Dafi's build of the Heller Victory.  It's plastic and at this point, it has little resemblance to what came out of the box.    

[Landlubber Mike]

If comparing the Caldercraft and long-promised Amati kits, one thing to remember is the scale difference.  Caldercraft is a really big model at 1/72 scale.  Amati I believe is going to be even bigger at 1/64.

[mtdoramike]

12 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

If comparing the Caldercraft and long-promised Amati kits, one thing to remember is the scale difference.  Caldercraft is a really big model at 1/72 scale.  Amati I believe is going to be even bigger at 1/64.

Yeah and we all know bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. 

[BikerMart]

Thanks for all of your replies. You all make very valid points.

I think on balance that I will go with the Billings HMS Victory.

I have seen what a number of MSW members have achieved with the Billings kit; I am sure that it will be more than enough to challenge my skills and - maybe more importantly - patience!

COVID notwithstanding; I will be in England for my daughter's wedding next March; maybe I will get to the see the real thing up close and personal again.

 

[GrandpaPhil]

John McKay wrote an excellent book called, The 100 Gun Ship Victory in the Anatomy Of The Ship series.

 

It has been a very useful book for me for my Victory build.

[BikerMart]

Thank you Grandpa Phil.

Amazon should deliver it by Friday!

 

[ubjs]

I read this thread and have a question. Two times it is pointed out that the Caldercraft kit is very hugh.

Caldercraft is 1/72 and Billings is 1/75, I think its 4 cm on the length.

Is that a big difference for a model ship?

The price for Caldercraft is twice as much than Billings.

Twice as good?

 

BikerMart wrote that he had built Billings Endeavour and Billings Bounty.

I would say that the difference with Victory is the smaller scale, 1:75 against 1:50 for Endeavour and Bounty.

I think that the best ¨Victory¨ for BikerMart could be the Nuestra Senora del Pilar from Occre in scale 1/46!

 

I compare with scratchbuilding houses for model railroading. Going from 0-scale to H0-scale would make it more difficult even impossible to do everything in the right scale (windows). I think its even worse in ship model building, I now has understood that I cant build anything in ships smaller than 1/50, maybe 1/60.

 

I have seen wonderful builds in 1/100 but I cant understand how they build them.

 

If I was BikerMart I would at least buy a smaller boat from same period as Victory in scale 1/75, to try the scale before investing a lot of money and a lot of time.

I have several kits in 1/75, but I think my grandchildren will have to build them.

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, ubjs said:

Caldercraft is 1/72 and Billings is 1/75, I think its 4 cm on the length.

Is that a big difference for a model ship?

The price for Caldercraft is twice as much than Billings.

Twice as good?

I think this is one instance where the maxim "You get what you pay for." really applies. Your mileage may vary.

 

Use the forum search engine and look at build logs of each brand and draw your own conclusions as to the relative qualities of the two kit options.

[catopower]

BikerMart, I think you'll generally find that Billing Boats kits, if not blessed with great instructions, seem to have very accurate shape.

 

And, while it's no Caldercraft Victory kit, I was just recently looking over the instructions for the Billing Boats HMS Victory kit, and compared to other kits, it looks like it's pretty buildable, and should result in a very nice model.

 

But, good luck whichever way you choose to go. I'm sure you'll get lots of great support here!

[BikerMart]

Thanks all.

I have just returned from a holiday in England. My daughter got married on March 19th.

I did visit the Victory again and took a few pictures of some areas of the ship that I am particularly concerned about, mostly of where the planks/wales meet the transom.

And now, of course, I am itching to get started on a Victory model. It will be Caldercraft; at 1/72 it will sit well alongside the HMS Vanguard that is currently a work in progress.

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

I'm a little disappointed that no one mentioned the - gasp - plastic Heller Victory.  It is hands down the most accurate kit of Victory on the market. At 1/100 it is a reasonable size for detail without taking up too much floor space, and there are seven sheets of brass etch available to enhance the build.  See the several build logs on the forum.

 

Just sayin'    🙃

 

Edit: Thought I would add a shot of mine on the bench just after completion.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[allanyed]

Bikermark,

 

Looking at Charter33's build log here at MSW the Caldercaft kit looks to be really good.  The copper sheathing has giant rivets instead of small nails, otherwise she is a beauty so far.   Looking forward to your build log.

 

Allan

[Nirvana]

5 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

I'm a little disappointed that no one mentioned the - gasp - plastic Heller Victory.  It is hands down the most accurate kit of Victory on the market. At 1/100 it is a reasonable size for detail without taking up too much floor space, and there are seven sheets of brass etch available to enhance the build.  See the several build logs on the forum.

 

Just sayin'    🙃

 

Edit: Though I would add a shot of mine on the bench just after completion.

 

And with Heller's HMS Victory there are a lot of aftermarket parts available.

Like better cannons, wood deck etc.

Look at this website.

Once I am embarking the journey of building Revell's Constitution many items will be come from that place.

[Kevin]

i will perhaps never build another big scale 1st rate, time is against me to do all the other builds i wish to do, unless @chris watton brings out the royal George, 

however i did enjoy the Caldercraft Victory, even if it took me 7 years 

[Nirvana]

Kevin, that's an incredible picture. The angle makes the ship to look much much bigger than it is, specially with your house in the background.

If you wouldn't had the towel in the picture it would had been even harder to tell.

[Kevin]

@Nirvana thank you

 

i cropped it a bit

[mtaylor]

Just an observation on kits in general...  including Victory.   As time goes on and new kits are released, you'll find more accuracy (per market demand) and also better designs.   So, sometimes, if you the "best" kit of a given ship is going to be released, it's often worth waiting for as designs and technology improve.

[BikerMart]

 

22 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Just an observation on kits in general...  including Victory.   As time goes on and new kits are released, you'll find more accuracy (per market demand) and also better designs.   So, sometimes, if you the "best" kit of a given ship is going to be released, it's often worth waiting for as designs and technology improve.

Agreed. I just don't do patience very well !

 

 

[mtaylor]

9 minutes ago, BikerMart said:

 

Agreed. I just don't do patience very well !

 

 

Many of us don't do it well either.  I include myself.