HMS Indefatigable 1794 (prototype) by James H - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[James H]

2 minutes ago, Oboship said:

This build will be another Chris W / James H masterpiece!

I'm just the monkey.

 

Chris is the organ grinder. 😄

[Oboship]

Monkey???🤨

A solid understatement in my opinion!

[chris watton]

Yep. if it wasn't for Jim, I would probably only have 6 or so kits out by now, instead of working on the 12th!

[glbarlow]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:42 PM, Malcolm Greig said:

how many hours James

About 1/10th of what it will take the rest of us

[DavidG]

I might have my loose rigging lines tied off and 20 gunport doors made by the time you build this.. good luck

[Vane]

And I thought my Speedy had an inventive design... its great to see the progress of Vanguard models. I am building the first version of the Speedy from 2019 and I see that things has improved even further since then. More and more new solutions and the material seem to have improved as well. It looks like the lazercutted material is much finer now. If I remember correctly, my Speedy version was delivered before Chris invested in his own equipment.    

[chris watton]

10 minutes ago, Vane said:

And I thought my Speedy had an inventive design... its great to see the progress of Vanguard models. I am building the first version of the Speedy from 2019 and I see that things has improved even further since then. More and more new solutions and the material seem to have improved as well. It looks like the lazercutted material is much finer now. If I remember correctly, my Speedy version was delivered before Chris invested in his own equipment.    

You are right, I received my first laser machine a week before Christmas 2019, and my second machine almost two years' later to the day! Have learned a lot since then...

 

Yesterday I submitted my drawings/designs for the Indy figurehead to my digital carver, plus details for a Pellew figure. So hopefully, these will be done in the next month or so, and Indy will have its most famous captain to grace the poop!

Edited May 25, 2022 by chris watton

[Craigie65]

7 minutes ago, chris watton said:

Pellew figure.

Will he look like Robert Lindsay? 😉

[chris watton]

30 minutes ago, Craigie65 said:

Will he look like Robert Lindsay? 😉

Wolfie Smith!

[Nipper]

10 minutes ago, chris watton said:

Wolfie Smith!

I love it!

Chris - seriously! - have you thought about extending your 1/64 figures a bit further?  At present the only ones available for the mid to late 18th century are the Amati 25mm ones, which I like apart from their fierce expressions.  I really like to put crew on the models as it brings them to life, but there needs to be more variety.  But not from the Tooting Popular Liberation Front.

 

Nipper

[chris watton]

10 minutes ago, Nipper said:

I love it!

Chris - seriously! - have you thought about extending your 1/64 figures a bit further?  At present the only ones available for the mid to late 18th century are the Amati 25mm ones, which I like apart from their fierce expressions.  I really like to put crew on the models as it brings them to life, but there needs to be more variety.  But not from the Tooting Popular Liberation Front.

 

Nipper

The figures are not cheap to commission (plus I am having the Indy figurehead sculpted at the same time).

 

From a strictly personal point of view, I do not like to see a lot of figures (or sails) on a static scale model unless it is a diorama (Like what Hollowneck does so superbly). But maybe I will commission a gun crew at some point.

 

I did think it would be pretty cool to have one figure, a famous captain who is linked with the subject, on the deck to give a greater sense of scale to the model.

[DelF]

26 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I did think it would be pretty cool to have one figure

I agree - can I have the buxom Duchess of Kingston please? 😬

[Craigie65]

3 hours ago, chris watton said:

Wolfie Smith!

Would love to say I am too young to remember this…………….

Edited May 25, 2022 by Craigie65

[hollowneck]

7 hours ago, Nipper said:

I did think it would be pretty cool to have one figure, a famous captain who is linked with the subject, on the deck to give a greater sense of scale to the model

You've read my mind, Chris: the transatlantic telepathic distance presents no hindrance!

For HMS Camilla, I'm planning on having one (1) superb, miniature Lord Cochrane placed on her Quarterdeck - and no others on board - this, a departure from including a small complement of crew figures on my diorama models.

As you've suggested, having a single figure is adequate to show scale and admittedly, this is experimental on my part. If, at the end of the day, if it looks "goofy", inappropriate, I'll figure-out a way to add some more crew figures(pun intended).

We'll see what presents itself when HMS Indy exits the shipyards in a year or two...should a Vanguard gun crew magically appear in the next few months, all bets are off!

One gun crew = five (5) sailors X 64 guns = 320! Gulp.

Edited May 25, 2022 by hollowneck

[James H]

I'm not missing the chat here, but I'm also working as flat out as I can with some respiratory problem I have.

 

No update yet, but proof I'm not idle.

 

[Nipper]

Jim

Sorry to hear that you're not feeling well and I hope that it clears up soon.

I'm also feeling guilty in hijacking your log to chat about 1/64 figures . . . perhaps I should have posted that in the VM pages.

Nipper

[chris watton]

Looks like I may be able to offer as an option a Hornblower figure, too. Or a tall thin young lieutenant... 

[James H]

Small update as I hated leaving it without a bow and stern from the last update 😁

 

First, the bow. The foremost 'timberheads' near the prow are pear inserts to the MDF former so there's lots of strength up front when later work is carried out.  Bulkhead #1 is temporarily fitted to the hull and then the formers are fitted in. The reason for doing this on model is so I can get the innermost formers snug against the keel. All these parts are numbered and the relative slots on the bulkhead are numbered too.

 

 

 

 

The assembly is now removed from the hull before the outer formers are set and the upper parts (35) are glued into place as seen here. Too stiffener pieces are also glued to the exposed side of the pear inserts. The assembly is now left to properly dry.

 

 

 

A sanding block is now taken to the bow and the whole lot is sanded and shaped in readiness to fit to the hull. The back side of this also hooks onto bulkhead #2. When I was happy with this, it was glued to the hull.

 

 

 

 

It's now the turn of the stern and fitting out the final bulkhead. As with the bow, this is fitted with a series of formers that are numbered in relation to the bulkhead slots. It's a no-brainer!

 

 

 

 

This is now carefully sanded to shape. It will doubtless be refined later when it comes to fairing the hull. Once happy with it, it's glued onto the hull.

 

Until later!

[Vane]

I know that some people prefer the supersteady plywood construction but once I started to figure out the MDF construction on my Speedy I was hooked on this. Everything gets directly in the right position, no measuring and fitting etc. Its like building Lego. And the best thing of it all, sanding is like melting butter. Later I started working on my Diana plywood hull (also Chris construction, but over 20 years ago) and it was a b*tch in comparison. Tweeking, measuring, bending and I dont think its completly straight. And because the bulkheads were so far apart sanding is really heavy and it even creates that kind of scratchnoise like Quints nails on the blackboard.... 

And from an enginering point of view, I just luv seeing all of the hundreds of MDF pieces going together and suddenly forms the Indy hull! 🙂 Keep it up, james!       

[James H]

13 minutes ago, Vane said:

I know that some people prefer the supersteady plywood construction but once I started to figure out the MDF construction on my Speedy I was hooked on this. Everything gets directly in the right position, no measuring and fitting etc. Its like building Lego. And the best thing of it all, sanding is like melting butter. Later I started working on my Diana plywood hull (also Chris construction, but over 20 years ago) and it was a b*tch in comparison. Tweeking, measuring, bending and I dont think its completly straight. And because the bulkheads were so far apart sanding is really heavy and it even creates that kind of scratchnoise like Quints nails on the blackboard.... 

And from an enginering point of view, I just luv seeing all of the hundreds of MDF pieces going together and suddenly forms the Indy hull! 🙂 Keep it up, james!       

 

It's a no-brainer! Ply wouldn't really work on this as the tolerances needed for so many Lego slots would throw the construction out, especially the framed gun ports. MDF tolerances are much tighter. 

[chris watton]

There will be no banana shaped keel on this, or any of my new kits. I have said this numerous times before, but I could not have designed these in this way if ply was my only alternative, thickness tolerances are comical, and with MDF, it is kind of 'homogenous', so much easier to sand, with no harder and softer parts to take into account. The problem with ply is that the best stuff is not only very expensive, but also an absolute pig to sand, no fun. Then you get the cheaper crap that is next to useless except for the basest of kits that people start, thinking they got a bargain, and end up never finishing it.

 

I know some still worry and some email about the health aspects when using MDF. I send them all the certificates of conformity. The UK supplier of the MDF also supply that exact same grade MDF to UK schools and universities. There are grades of this material (like ply), and I always make sure I get the safest (as I too sand this stuff, and laser cut it, day in a day out). 

 

I cannot wait to see Jim's model in its full livery!

[thibaultron]

Jim, best wishes for a full and speedy recovery!

[CaptnBirdseye]

4 hours ago, chris watton said:

I cannot wait to see Jim's model in its full livery!

I think a few of us will echo that sentiment 😄

[James H]

Time for another Lego update.

 

Next job was to bolster those bulkhead ears by adding the gun ports. As with Sphinx, these are built into the frame. The main gun deck longitudinal frames lock into the bulkheads and comprise two parts upper per side, and two parts lower. Lower in first of course.

 

 

 

 

 

The vertical gun port frames now need to fit in. These are all specific, to suit the curve of hull. Each port has two verticals apart from #7, as that one uses the side of a bulkhead for the other vertical.

 

 

 

The main gun deck ply layer is pre-engraved to help you with laying the planks. It's also supplied in halves, to make it easier to fit. Both deck halves are turned upside down and a strip of narrow tape is applied full length, and then the various openings cut out. The deck is then turned over and bent down the tape hinge before being glued into place. Deck edges lock into slots in the base of the bulkhead ears, so there's no problem with it popping up. It's just a case of making sure it's glued down across the deck beams and then weighted down while it dries. No need to pin anything here.

[James H]

Continuing today's update:

 

Time to get rid of that blank section in the last bulkhead. That was there to protect the bulkhead while work was being done on it with shaping the stern. A gentle twisting removes this from the hull.

 

 

 

Time for the stern timbers to be fitted. These slot across the rear two bulkheads, creating the correct angles for the parts. They also sit on the shaped stern upper block. First the inners, then the middles, followed by the outers.

 

 

 

Some filler blocks are now added to the outside of the outer timbers, creating the rest of the platform and something to plank to also.

 

 

 

Those fragile rear bulkhead ears are now bolstered with the addition of more longitudinal strips, all slotted to fit. The gap you see between some of them is to house the fore bulkhead screen. That's designed so you get zero gaps. You'll see that later in the build.

 

 

 

Door frames are added from the captain's cabin to where the quarter galleries will eventually fit. Once dry, the inner horizontal parts of the frames are cut out. 

 

 

 

Part of bulkhead 18's ear is now cut out as this is the only one that would obstruct the gun port. That is sawn out and filed flush before the last gun port frames are glued in.

 

 

 

To create a rigid structure for fairing, the rear of the hull has some temporary MDF sections that are held in place with pegs. These are totally solid and shouldn't come loose. 

 

 

And that is it for today. I'm whacked!

[thibaultron]

Man, Chris put a lot of innovation into this kit! Great design and detail!

[Malcolm Greig]

James

Great start and thanks for the updates. Very impressive progress as I'm guessing after Chris sends  you the 'kit' you work the build sequence out for yourself?  Whatever the process it's a very effective and efficient collaboration.   

 

regards
 

Malcolm

[James H]

1 minute ago, Malcolm Greig said:

James

Great start and thanks for the updates. Very impressive progress as I'm guessing after Chris sends  you the 'kit' you work the build sequence out for yourself?  Whatever the process it's a very effective and efficient collaboration.   

 

regards
 

Malcolm

 

Sort of. The bench pics Chris sends me are usually of 2 or 3 test fits, sometimes with different sequences. I spend a lot of time going through many hundreds of photos and working out what I think is the best order of doing things, especially as the parts I've been sent often differ to the ones in the photos. Those differences are little things like the inner bulwarks changing from 3 parts per side to 4 parts, and other more constructional changes.

 

Sequence changes and suggested modifications to parts are then looked at, and you then see the results here.

[CaptnBirdseye]

2 hours ago, James H said:

 

Sort of. The bench pics Chris sends me are usually of 2 or 3 test fits, sometimes with different sequences. I spend a lot of time going through many hundreds of photos and working out what I think is the best order of doing things, especially as the parts I've been sent often differ to the ones in the photos. Those differences are little things like the inner bulwarks changing from 3 parts per side to 4 parts, and other more constructional changes.

 

Sequence changes and suggested modifications to parts are then looked at, and you then see the results here.

What a brilliant insight into the build process and your colaboration with Chris. Guess it's not as easy as we all thought lol

Edited May 27, 2022 by RockinBudgie

[mtaylor]

I have a deep appreciation for the manuals and those who do them.   James is exceptional.  I say this as former tech writer who did manuals often times without ever seeing the equipment and only the plans.   My hat is tipped and I raise a salute.