hollowneck Posted June 10, 2022 Share #121 Posted June 10, 2022 23 hours ago, James H said: I have already sanded my fingertips off, twice. You never saw the bloodied sandpaper. Annoying as my Mac is fingerprint activated and I've had to scan my pinkie to make it work. Keep that pinky finger away from sandpaper or your MAC will remain locked forever! thibaultron, Keith Black, Dave_E and 3 others 2 4 Quote Ron Director, Nautical Research Guild Secretary/Newsletter Editor, Philadelphia Ship Model Society Former Member/Secretary for the Connecticut Marine Model Society Current Build: Godspeed 2, (Wyoming, 6-masted Schooner) Completed Builds: HMS Grecian, HMS Sphinx (as HMS Camilla) Ongakuka Maru, (Higaki Kaisen, It Takes A Village), Le Tigre Privateer, HMS Swan, HMS Godspeed, HMS Ardent, HMS Diana, Russian brig Mercury, Elizabethan Warship Revenge, Xebec Syf'Allah, USF Confederacy, HMS Granado, USS Brig Syren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share #122 Posted June 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, hollowneck said: Keep that pinky finger away from sandpaper or your MAC will remain locked forever! At least I'm right-handed and don't need that to fret my guitar. Dave_E, hollowneck, BenD and 1 other 2 2 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Posted June 12, 2022 Share #123 Posted June 12, 2022 On 5/26/2022 at 11:11 AM, Vane said: I know that some people prefer the supersteady plywood construction but once I started to figure out the MDF construction on my Speedy I was hooked on this. Everything gets directly in the right position, no measuring and fitting etc. Its like building Lego. And the best thing of it all, sanding is like melting butter. Later I started working on my Diana plywood hull (also Chris construction, but over 20 years ago) and it was a b*tch in comparison. Tweeking, measuring, bending and I dont think its completly straight. And because the bulkheads were so far apart sanding is really heavy and it even creates that kind of scratchnoise like Quints nails on the blackboard.... And from an enginering point of view, I just luv seeing all of the hundreds of MDF pieces going together and suddenly forms the Indy hull! 🙂 Keep it up, james! Hi Vane, So true regarding Diana, I have just got to this stage and had three attempts adding wood to the ply frames before being reasonably happy and then drove the wife mad when sanding with the noise like drawing your finger nails down a chalk board, a bit like in the jaws film. thibaultron, bruce d, hollowneck and 3 others 1 5 Quote Current Build(s): H.M.S Diana 1794 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale Completed Builds: H.M.S. Cruiser 1797 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale H.M. Naval Cutter Speedy 1828 - Model Shipwright 1:48 Royal Caroline 1749 - Panart 1:47 H.M. Brig Supply 1759 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Pickle 1778 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.Y. Chatham 1741 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Resolution Cutter - Corel 1:50 H.M.S. Racehorse - Sergal 1:47 (Renamed H.M.S. Thunder 1740) first wooden kit build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share #124 Posted June 12, 2022 Not great photos, but I have been asked several times about the size of Indy compared to Amati's 1:64 Victory prototype, so here's a couple of photos for you. Remember that the angle of the first pic makes Indy look bigger than Vic. It isn't! That's why I did a photo of Indy sat on Vic's lower gun deck. Theodosius, ccoyle, CaptnBirdseye and 27 others 23 2 5 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 12, 2022 Share #125 Posted June 12, 2022 This will be Indy's colour scheme, more or less Theodosius, Rustyj, jpalmer1970 and 23 others 26 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted June 12, 2022 Share #126 Posted June 12, 2022 Indy was one big frigate, razee or not. Surprised it’s they’re that close in size. Craigie65, chris watton, thibaultron and 4 others 7 Quote Regards, Glenn Current Build: HMS Winchelsea Completed Builds: HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 12, 2022 Share #127 Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) She wasn't called a 'Super Frigate' for nothing! lol (Vic is missing a large chuck of her stern, so the sizes can be deceiving) Edited June 12, 2022 by chris watton glbarlow, hollowneck, Oldsalt1950 and 10 others 13 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted June 13, 2022 Share #128 Posted June 13, 2022 these were converted from first rates to combat the new yankee frigates (constituition didnt get the nickname old ironsides for nought)! Oldsalt1950, Craigie65, Old Collingwood and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 13, 2022 Share #129 Posted June 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, clearway said: these were converted from first rates to combat the new yankee frigates (constituition didnt get the nickname old ironsides for nought)! The later razee's were cut down old 74's, Indy is a cut down 64 of the Ardent Class, same class as Agamemnon. thibaultron, Craigie65, glbarlow and 6 others 9 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted June 13, 2022 Share #130 Posted June 13, 2022 oops cheers for the correction! Craigie65, mtaylor, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieste Posted June 13, 2022 Share #131 Posted June 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, clearway said: these were converted from first rates to combat the new yankee frigates (constituition didnt get the nickname old ironsides for nought)! Majestic, Saturn, Goliath (and more post-war razees) were old common 74s - ships of the third rate, reduced to a 4th rate frigate. Indefatigable, Anson and Magnamine were from the Ardent and Intrepid classes - razee 64s, or the smallest of the third rate, reduced to a 4th rate frigate. Also in the third rate were the middling and large 74s, and the 80 gun ships. Second rates were the 90 and 98 gun ships (and from time to time, the rearmed 100 gunners, including Victory) First rates were only those ships of 100 guns or over (in the period in which these ships were active) - Victory is not *quite* the smallest of these, but is fairly close to the smaller end, and is smaller than some of the third rate ships (similar to the French ships of the second rank) by tons and tonnage. Britannia is a bit smaller, and there are many later classes and captures - especially those of 120 guns which are considerably larger (as were the French and Spanish vessels of the first rank). BenD, Craigie65, KentM and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenD Posted June 13, 2022 Share #132 Posted June 13, 2022 On 6/12/2022 at 10:39 AM, chris watton said: This will be Indy's colour scheme, more or less That's the color scheme I think we were all hoping for. I think that's a Derek Gardner painting. He does really good stuff. Malcolm Greig, chris watton, Kevin and 4 others 7 Quote Ropes of Scale.com - Rope and cable for the scale modeler. Finished builds: HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft - 1:64 - 9th century longship - Falkonet - 1:72 Current builds: HMS Snake - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Tender Avos by BenD - Master Korabel - 1:72 - 19th Century Four-Oared Yawl by BenD - Falkonet - 1:24 scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 14, 2022 Share #133 Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) Just had the first render of the 3-d file of the new figure for my approval. This is Pellew, Hornblower is being worked on now, so next week, I will have the two new figures and the Indy figurehead. This will eventually be looking out from the poop on Jim's model! ETA - Pellew is modelled in a captain's outfit, as I will be developing Indy as she most likely appeared between 1795-98ish I will most likely do a 48th and 96th version for this and Hornblower/tall skinny lieutenant... Edited June 14, 2022 by chris watton gjdale, Cathead, thibaultron and 32 others 33 2 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 14, 2022 Share #134 Posted June 14, 2022 That's a clean cut figure Chris, nice sharp detailing even down to the buckles on his shoes. Is he modelled on you? B.E. AJohnson, Dave_E, chris watton and 5 others 6 2 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitejamest Posted June 14, 2022 Share #135 Posted June 14, 2022 That's lovely. Well sculpted 1/64 crew figures are something I wish were much more available. Glad you are adding some. hollowneck, chris watton, Dave_E and 3 others 6 Quote Current build: HMS Speedy, Vanguard Models 1:64 Past Projects: 18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways, 1:48 22 Foot Yawl, Vanguard Models, 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 14, 2022 Share #136 Posted June 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said: That's a clean cut figure Chris, nice sharp detailing even down to the buckles on his shoes. Is he modelled on you? B.E. Not me, good Lord! Several Pellew portraits were used, and drawings of contemporary uniform to fill in the blanks. thibaultron, Dave_E, Old Collingwood and 9 others 12 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 14, 2022 Share #137 Posted June 14, 2022 Very nice Chris, but I think we of the small but beautiful Sphinx set also deserve our Captain. How about Captain Anthony Hunt, first commander of Sphinx, who took her to war in the Americas in 1776? Even your humble fishers have a skipper. B.E. DocRob, Dave_E, AJohnson and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted June 14, 2022 Share #138 Posted June 14, 2022 Very Nice indeed, he will look great looking over my shoulder whilst i build mine AJohnson, chris watton, thibaultron and 3 others 6 Quote Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on All the best Kevin SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On the build table HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 MHS Britannic by Kevin SD 14 - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 - Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72 U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48 Amerigo Vespucci 1/84 - Panart- HMS Enterprise -CAF - 1/48 Finished Hercules by Kevin - OcCre - 1/50 - Tugboat - Finished - May 2024 Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020 HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesvidal Posted June 14, 2022 Share #139 Posted June 14, 2022 I definitely hope some figures in 1/48th scale will become available. I am not sold on the Amati figures of 35 mm.... Yves Old Collingwood, AJohnson, Kevin and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share #140 Posted June 28, 2022 There'll be an update in the next days, but in the meantime, here are some pictures of the Indy figurehead and also 1:64 figures of both Pellew and Hornblower. Both of the figures will be on the website in the next days, but Pellew will also be included with HMS Indefatigable when the kit is released. AJohnson, yvesvidal, KentM and 33 others 30 6 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 28, 2022 Share #141 Posted June 28, 2022 The slot in the prow for the figurehead has since been moved back 2mm, so the figureheads sits much further into the prow. What you see are first offs, the very first time these files have been printed, and using a new resin. hollowneck, Oldsalt1950, Ryland Craze and 10 others 11 1 1 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenD Posted June 28, 2022 Share #142 Posted June 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, James H said: 1:64 figures of both Pellew and Hornblower Awsome! I guess there is no chance of getting Hornblowers followers Mathews and Styles? These are sharp and highly detailed figures, Even at this scale. I can just barely see the 3D printer marks. Dave_E, Old Collingwood, DocRob and 6 others 9 Quote Ropes of Scale.com - Rope and cable for the scale modeler. Finished builds: HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft - 1:64 - 9th century longship - Falkonet - 1:72 Current builds: HMS Snake - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Tender Avos by BenD - Master Korabel - 1:72 - 19th Century Four-Oared Yawl by BenD - Falkonet - 1:24 scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 28, 2022 Share #143 Posted June 28, 2022 1 minute ago, BenD said: Awsome! I guess there is no chance of getting Hornblowers followers Mathews and Styles? These are sharp and highly detailed figures, Even at this scale. I can just barely see the 3D printer marks. Future ones should look even better, as I have an 8k 3-d printer on pre order. I will do 48th and 96th versions at some point. DelF, hollowneck, scrubbyj427 and 18 others 16 5 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesvidal Posted June 29, 2022 Share #144 Posted June 29, 2022 18 hours ago, chris watton said: Future ones should look even better, as I have an 8k 3-d printer on pre order. I will do 48th and 96th versions at some point. Yeah !!!!!!!! Yves mtaylor, thibaultron, Old Collingwood and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thibaultron Posted June 29, 2022 Share #145 Posted June 29, 2022 Which resin did you use? mtaylor and Old Collingwood 2 Quote Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted June 29, 2022 Share #146 Posted June 29, 2022 Might not the figure be supported with two small resin pegs under his feet so he can stand without a stand? Or can the feet be cleanly removed from the base without damaging the figure? Nice work! mtaylor 1 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted June 29, 2022 Share #147 Posted June 29, 2022 12 minutes ago, thibaultron said: Which resin did you use? 'Siraya Tech Fast ABS-Like 3D Printer Resin' (Navy Grey) 1 minute ago, dvm27 said: Might not the figure be supported with two small resin pegs under his feet so he can stand without a stand? Or can the feet be cleanly removed from the base without damaging the figure? Nice work! The base can be very easily cut or filed/sanded down. Old Collingwood, thibaultron, Dave_E and 3 others 4 2 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 29, 2022 Share #148 Posted June 29, 2022 Very nice work Chris, the Hornblower figure looks a great addition to the range.👍 I am still hoping you will take pity on us Sphinx builders and provide a suitable deck figure for scale comparison. I would envisage a uniform of the 1774 issue - back vented frock coat with turned back lapels and cuffs, white breeches and waistcoat, topped with a Tri-corn hat. There are excellent examples in the book Dressed to kill by Amy Miller, (published by the NMM) which covers the uniform development from 1748 - 1857. Hint, hint. B.E. Dave_E, mtaylor, hollowneck and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowneck Posted June 29, 2022 Share #149 Posted June 29, 2022 I was doing some research today at the RMG (Greenwich, formerly the NMM) and came across this very nice aquatint engraving of the Indy in action. I'd typed in "Pellew" and got interesting results of the man but also the various ships he commanded. Enjoy... GrandpaPhil, thibaultron, chris watton and 7 others 10 Quote Ron Director, Nautical Research Guild Secretary/Newsletter Editor, Philadelphia Ship Model Society Former Member/Secretary for the Connecticut Marine Model Society Current Build: Godspeed 2, (Wyoming, 6-masted Schooner) Completed Builds: HMS Grecian, HMS Sphinx (as HMS Camilla) Ongakuka Maru, (Higaki Kaisen, It Takes A Village), Le Tigre Privateer, HMS Swan, HMS Godspeed, HMS Ardent, HMS Diana, Russian brig Mercury, Elizabethan Warship Revenge, Xebec Syf'Allah, USF Confederacy, HMS Granado, USS Brig Syren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted June 29, 2022 Share #150 Posted June 29, 2022 33 minutes ago, hollowneck said: the RMG (Greenwich, formerly the NMM) What?? 'NMM' was a perfectly serviceable acronym. Now I have to unlearn that one and memorize a different one. 😜 Dave_E, hollowneck, chris watton and 5 others 5 3 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Salmson 2, Speeljacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.