Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[Chuck Seiler]

13 hours ago, catopower said:

How about a super tiny paint-by-numbers frieze?

 

[Chuck]

Paper prints work just fine....they look great and its how the contemporary models were done.   You can buy some self-adhesive paper which is very thin by the way, and print them on that.  It would be very easy to paint right on top in a few areas only to fake that you actually painted it.  But if the original design is done in a painterly style, it isnt needed.  They are not easy to do however so they look good.  Trust me.  Chris has his work cut out for him.  I have seen the decal friezes by other kit companies.  The water/slide off kind.  They look just awful in my opinion.   

 

But there will be trade-offs no matter what is selected.

 

Chuck

[Malcolm Greig]

Interesting discussion about decals. In my experience decals require very specific techniques, including correct preparation of the surface, and various chemicals to obtain really good results; and that is on plastic/styrene. I don't know how decals would behave on wood. Larger decals can increase the difficulty in my experience, and the potential for error. Chuck is spot on, poorly applied decals look awful and are the first thing the eye will focus on.   

I think that paper, card, PE, others metals, resin, plastic and decals can all have a place enhancing wooden scale models. It will be very interesting to see what Chris eventually decides.

 

Malcolm 

   

[hollowneck]

Chris's 1577 Revenge kit from Victory/Amati provides extensive printed paper decorations. In my build of this superb kit and after testing this appliqué approach, I didn't like the appearance and I decided to paint over these printed patterns. I've included one photo here to show the results of my solution. Looking closely, one can see that my "over-painting" isn't perfect. In fact, slight brush marks and tiny "wobblies" in the application of acrylic paint accomplished exactly what I intended: the appearance of precisely-hand-painted, decorative friezes. It is important to note that the scale of this kit is 1:64; the large, geometric patterns weren't that difficult to execute by hand.

 

However....

 

For models of latter era ships, whether kit or scratch-built (mainly English and French Navy warships of the 17-18th centuries), accomplishing accurately painted embellishments (mostly on outer bulwarks, sometime on sterns) is extraordinarily challenging  - at any scale - but especially so at scales smaller than 1/48 (I" = 1ft.). This style of ship decorative painting is called trompe-d'loeil ("fool-the-eye"). This painting style was popular in contemporary European art of the late 17th and early 18th centuries and adopted by ship owners and builders. The themes are very detailed and typically featured floral and ornate tapestry designs which mimicked the decorative interior trends of the period. I have seen numerous (legacy) ship models in museums and in various publications with this painting technique and believe the vast majority of these models are at scales of at least 1:48. Modeler's attempts to accurately portray this embellishment at scales of 1/64 or 1/72 (for example) are rare precisely because it is extremely challenging to do well.

 

To the point: Paper appliqués, whether printed or hand-painted off the model, are a reasonable "best solution" for period ship models at scales smaller than 1:48.

 

Members here will note that Chuck Passaro's HMS Winchelsea model has beautifully rendered the trompe-d'loeil style paintings on both the bulwarks and stern with excellent painting by hand: As most would agree, Chuck is a trained and accomplished artist  — and, importantly, this impressive model is 1:48 scale.

 

It will be interesting to see what Chris decides to offer for his kits of ships featuring these 2-dimensional ornate embellishments. I'm certain it will be clever!

 

Ron

 

 

 

[Bobbuild]

Chris

Have you thought about adding flags as an option or part of your kits?

I think they can add a lot to a model.

[druxey]

Historically, friezes painted on paper and then applied to the ship's side can be seen in a number of contemporary models. Not the full sized ships, of course!

[chris watton]

Hi Guys (and gals),

 

Thank you for all of your very constructive comments, they are all very much appreciated. I have been very busy, but busy doing many things.

 

Regarding the friezes, I will look into this once I need to look into it, and I promise, I will be like a dog with a bone. My gut instinct is telling me that very thin high quality decals would be the best choice to give the impression of a non-kit finished model. I want the models to look as if they were not built from a kit. But I have no idea of costings for such decals yet, and I do not need to think about this for at least another 6 months. I know how I want the finished models to look, I just need to find the right solutions to achieve this. PE works well because it is nigh on fool proof.

 

What I have been concentrating on is getting the two little kits ready (working on manuals right now), and learning more about what is and is not possible with my laser machine. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out a better way of lying the materials on the laser bed. The one that is specific to my machine has the optional honeycomb bed, to which the material rest on during cutting. My issue has been that the honeycomb grid is spaced to close, about 10mm square. This gives the back of the material a 'char grilled steak' effect'. To counter this, I am having a set of conical stand offs made, so the material is only sitting on a few points. I have experimented with some makeshift stand offs, and they seem to work very well. What I want is both sides of the material to look as clean as possible, and this problem is sorted. I have to still lay very thin materials like 0.8mm ply and 0.6 veneers on the honeycomb bed, as they need taping down, but for the rest, I can lift up from the main bed for a much cleaner cut, especially to the underside of the materials. 

 

I have looked at some of the earlier cut files for Alert and Speedy, and tweaked where necessary (Alert 3mm MDF now have less tabs on the bulkheads, and the tabs are all located on the top of each sacrificial bulkhead tab).

 

After the two fishing boats are released (all laser cutting and PE has already been done for these), HMS Flirt will follow, I have ordered all of the wood and other materials for 18 very special Master Shipwright versions of this particular kit, and I think that some may appreciate the material chosen. The standard kit is different enough from Speedy that it will have new plans,  manual, PE and box - but I do have a very good friend building this for me, so I can concentrate on the next main Vanguard Models kit.

 

Talking of boxes, due to the current situation, I cannot use my usual printer and supplier, so I have had to order plain white corrugated boxes for the Lady Isabella and Lady Eleanor, and will have to paste a large colour label of the box front.

 

And that's it, that's what I have been doing. Fishing boats will be ready for release in around 3 weeks, then Flirt, and in the meantime, I will concentrate on the next main kit. Right now, though, I am knee deep in Abobe InDesign doing the fishing boat manual...

 

One last thing, I have an Easter offer on all kits at the moment, with 10% off kits, including Master-Korabel. 

 

Cheers!

 

ETA - regarding flags, they are something I will give more thought to, as I would like to include them at some point, but right now, material costs are high (as I am bringing out three kits very close together, time wise), so need to make every penny count.

Edited April 11, 2020 by chris watton

[mtaylor]

Chris,

You might check and see if there's an aftermaket grate available.   They type I'm thinking of looks like a pin-cushion where the wood rests on top of the pin points.   The other solution is to space the wood to be cut off the grate using some spacer wood on the outside edges of the wood to be cut.

[chris watton]

14 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Chris,

You might check and see if there's an aftermaket grate available.   They type I'm thinking of looks like a pin-cushion where the wood rests on top of the pin points.   The other solution is to space the wood to be cut off the grate using some spacer wood on the outside edges of the wood to be cut.

Am organising getting this from the US

[BobG]

20 hours ago, chris watton said:

ETA - regarding flags, they are something I will give more thought to, as I would like to include them at some point, but right now, material costs are high (as I am bringing out three kits very close together, time wise), so need to make every penny count.

I really like the tissue flag that Chuck includes in the Medway Longboat kit. His method of using  spray, matte, artist fixative to wet and shape the flag works very well and you can obtain any shape you would like to have. I think it looks fairly realistic once it's finished. Here's a photo of the flag that I ended up with on my Medway Longboat. It looks shinier in the photo than it really is due to the light hitting it strongly at a low angle.

 

 

 

[chris watton]

Just a quick update. The Zulu is complete, and just waiting for the printers now. I have attached a pic of the box label, which I finished yesterday. Fifie will not be too far behind, thanks to Jim Hatch, and also thanks to Jim for helping with the Flirt development, which I anticipate will be ready July/August, with a very, very special Master Shipwright limited edition. And while Jim works on Flirt, I can work on another development.

 

I had my new 'pin bed' arrive this morning from the US. The pins are magnetic and they raise the material from the bed to reduce/stop blowback on the underside of the material. Looking forward to trying it out..

 

Hope you're all keeping safe!

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

ETA - I put in a large order for Master-Korabel stuff this week, but was told Russia is in complete lockdown for the next few weeks, so I cannot get any new stock until the world opens for business again...

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by chris watton

[glbarlow]

Looking forward to the Master special edition of Flirt.

[ASAT]

Chris, what is the new timeframe (approximately) for the Bristol?  I asked you last fall and you indicated around spring.... understand that your business model has changed, just wondering how far to the right it got pushed?

[James H]

8 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Looking forward to the Master special edition of Flirt.

I know what that kit will include and it's stunning! 🤩

[Vane]

Congrats to your new kit, looks great!

 

Regarding your new in house laser cutting capabilities. Do you think the quality of the cuts are even better now when you can finetune everything yourself instead of sending wood to the lasercutter company?

I just noticed that the cuts on the new deck for Speedy looks better than the original where the laser tended to leave a very small burnmark in some corners. 
And also, I find the other pieces (MDF, Cherry) is very precily cut, but the "burnt edges" has a slightly "wavy pattern" which you sometimes needs to sand down. 
      

[Vane]

[chris watton]

Hi Vane,

 

The first batches of laser cut for Speedy (including all Master Shipwright kits) were sub contracted to another UK company, who did an OK job, but quite expensive. I didn't get my laser machine until late December, and it took a while to get to grips with it, so I sub contracted another 20 Speedy kits to be laser cut, lest I mess them up.

 

A lot has changed since then, and I would not consider sub contacting laser work out, not now that I know what my machine is capable of. I have never noticed the lines on the edges of that 2mm MDF, I do not think they are there on later kits. I had already made 2 models, one complete and one complete hull using the same laser cut files, and didn't notice those lines along the edges, I just knew the parts fitted together very well and I was happy with all of the fit. At the time, I used the best people I knew, who replaced the Italian sub contractors, as the latter samples were way too sloppy a fit.

 

Regarding where I am now, I have attached some recent laser cut samples I have done myself, for the future Flirt 2mm wood anchor stocks, and also the main anchor body in 2mm MDF. There are no wavy lines on these along the cutting edges.

 

I have also attached a few pics of current state of laser cutting, these are the Flirt MS 2 and 3mm laser cut parts. For the 2mm, I have shown sides of the sheets - I have spent a lot of time to eliminate laser blowback (as evidenced in my previous post), to make the laser sheets as presentable as I can, whilst also fine tuning both laser cutting and engraving, which the special edition Flirt parts should show.

 

ASAT - Regarding Bristol, this was meant to be my second kit. However, because my business plan has changed, and want to produce higher quality kits with higher quality materials, the costs involved for larger kits is much, much more. Initially, Bristol was going have lave laser cut basswood parts and Tanganyika planking. It still may come with Tanganyika (as the stock I have is very good and the colour is perfect), but it will have many sheets of pear or similar, which costs a hell of a lot more than cheap basswood.

 

With this in mind, I need to work up to the larger kits a little slower than originally planned, due to the (much) higher investment costs of even the smallest kits. But what I hope and am aiming for is that all kits will be of similar high quality. Bristol is not scrubbed, as I have already invested a few thousand pounds into the development, it is just delayed, and that delay will ensure Bristol and others that follow will be as perfect as I can make them.

Edited April 18, 2020 by chris watton

[glbarlow]

Your plan makes sense to me. I for one am looking for quality, both of material and design. It seems that’s your direction.  While I respect ASAT’s views on Bristol I find myself more interested these days in smaller ships that don’t take me years to finish.

 

Is that Flirt’s false or primary deck that appears to be in 4 pieces?

 

Have you thought about another cutter, or a 1:48 kit?

 

Ok, I’ve exceeded my allotment of questions. Thanks Chris for being available, sharing your plans, and answering questions. 
 

 

[chris watton]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

Your plan makes sense to me. I for one am looking for quality, both of material and design. It seems that’s your direction.  While I respect ASAT’s views on Bristol I find myself more interested these days in smaller ships that don’t take me years to finish.

 

Is that Flirt’s false or primary deck that appears to be in 4 pieces?

 

Have you thought about another cutter, or a 1:48 kit?

 

Ok, I’ve exceeded my allotment of questions. Thanks Chris for being available, sharing your plans, and answering questions. 
 

 

That is Flirt's lower deck shown (Master Shipwright version).

 

I will probably do Alert's sister, Rattlesnake at some point, but completely new designs, but no plans for any 48th scale stuff, I want to stick with 64th. The next 6 kits are all planned out and are all 64th.

 

My wife is now packing the Zulu laser cut and PE parts in the boxes, all I am waiting for is the plans, instruction manual and box label..

Edited April 18, 2020 by chris watton

[DelF]

Six kits? That should last us ‘til the end of lockdown (I hope!).

[BobG]

Hi Chris, I have a couple of questions. I'm just now putting the final touches on the Syren Medway Longboat and am trying to decide what to build next. I have several models on the shelf and some others that I don't have yet which I am considering also. It took me 6 months to finish the Medway Longboat so I now know how much time and effort it can take me to build a model and do a nice job on it. So I'm taking my time deciding what to do next.

 

1. I have your first generation Alert kit. Can you tell me what the differences are between the first and second generation kits? Are any of the changes you made in the second generation kits available as an upgrade to the first generation kit?

 

2. Do you have a photo of any kind of the Flirt? I can't seem to find anything except the HMS Flirt destroyer of 1897 on the internet.

 

3. Do you have an approximate ETA for Lady Isabella and for the Flirt?

 

Thanks very much!

[chris watton]

16 minutes ago, BobG said:

Hi Chris, I have a couple of questions. I'm just now putting the final touches on the Syren Medway Longboat and am trying to decide what to build next. I have several models on the shelf and some others that I don't have yet which I am considering also. It took me 6 months to finish the Medway Longboat so I now know how much time and effort it can take me to build a model and do a nice job on it. So I'm taking my time deciding what to do next.

 

1. I have your first generation Alert kit. Can you tell me what the differences are between the first and second generation kits? Are any of the changes you made in the second generation kits available as an upgrade to the first generation kit?

 

2. Do you have a photo of any kind of the Flirt? I can't seem to find anything except the HMS Flirt destroyer of 1897 on the internet.

 

3. Do you have an approximate ETA for Lady Isabella and for the Flirt?

 

Thanks very much!

Hi Bob,

 

Regarding the differences between the original Alert and second edition, the changes are in the laser cut parts. All laser cut parts for version one were cut in Italy, and all wooden sheets are basswood, including the main sub deck. Version 2 has all wooden laser cut parts in pearwood, and tighter tolerances for slots in the MDF laser cut keel and bulkheads, and the main sub deck is 0.8mm birch plywood. Version 1 had white metal cast cannon and version 2 has black resin cast 6 pounder and half pounder barrels.

 

Wood strip is the same, but you can specify if you want the laser etched deck to replace the deck planking strips, and photo etched sheets are the same for both versions

 

No photo's of Flirt yet, as the prototype model is about to be started, but it will look a lot like Speedy without the copper plates and no flying jibboom, and missing the four timberheads located on the fore gunwale of Speedy.

 

Lady Isabella will be available as soon as I receive the printed material (manual, plans and box label), the file of which we sent to the printers yesterday. The Fifie, Lady Eleanor will be release almost at the same time.

[chris watton]

OK, today I have been laser cutting sheet samples, to how the quality for the underside has changed, and these are the results Pictured is 1mm and 2mm sample sheet, showing upper side and lower side. I am quite happy with this.

The sheets are not production sheets, but just test beds for a few changes to some stuff, to see how they look and to decide whether to keep in production files.

[chris watton]

Some other pics of the laser at work...

[glbarlow]

Wow

[hollowneck]

Not Grandpa's Kit.👍

 

Ron

[Kevin]

what happens to all the test sheets?

[chris watton]

6 minutes ago, Kevin said:

what happens to all the test sheets?

They're left lying around for a while, with the intention of perhaps using them for something. Weeks go by, more crap builds up and they are usually then thrown out, all good intentions out of the window, or in the bin... 

[glbarlow]

High end fire starter material for those cold UK nights...

[chris watton]

I wanted to see what I could transfer over from PE to laser cut and engraving, today was dedicated to this (and to see how much I could fit on the sheets). Also moving all yard/mast/bowsprit cleats for Flirt from PE to laser cut wood, and round centre holes for carriage wheels - but if you moan about having to file the axles, don't have a pop at me, a few of you asked for it! lol.

 

Also continuing to reduce retention tab count for each part, as pear is a lot more robust (dense) than basswood (Speedy was originally designed with basswood in mind, seems a lifetime ago now..), and where possible, moving remaining retention tabs where they will be hidden when fitted, so you don't have to file an exposed part to get rid of the tab, as once you file one edge, you have to do the rest. I know most file the edges anyway, but still better without tab stubs to contend with, too.

 

But I ramble, am tired...