chris watton Posted July 21, 2020 Author #841 Posted July 21, 2020 There's a 20 gun, 32 gun, 38 gun and 44 gun razee. Head says the smallest or 32 gun, heart wants the biggest... Ryland Craze, BenD, Murphy and 1 other 4 Vanguard Models on Facebook
Bobbuild Posted July 21, 2020 #842 Posted July 21, 2020 Chris What are the 4 ship names? Hope one is HMS Bellona. (But I guess that one has a larger number of guns) I agree with the idea of better wood use.
druxey Posted July 21, 2020 #843 Posted July 21, 2020 Sphinx of 1775 has a full set of plans in the RMG, including planking and disposition of frame.... chris watton and Ryland Craze 2 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
ccoyle Posted July 21, 2020 #844 Posted July 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, chris watton said: Head says the smallest or 32 gun, heart wants the biggest. In your line of work, you have to pay a certain amount of attention to what other people's wallets are willing to say. BenD, chris watton and druxey 3 Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, TBD
BenD Posted July 21, 2020 #845 Posted July 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, chris watton said: There's a 20 gun, 32 gun, 38 gun and 44 gun razee. Head says the smallest or 32 gun, heart wants the biggest... The 20 or 32 gun would be the logical progression of your kit lineup. No reason you can't develop the razee down the road. chris watton, Chuck Seiler and Gord-Canada 3 Ropes of Scale.com - Rope and cable for the scale modeler. Finished builds: HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft - 1:64 - 9th century longship - Falkonet - 1:72 Current builds: HMS Snake - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Tender Avos by BenD - Master Korabel - 1:72 - 19th Century Four-Oared Yawl by BenD - Falkonet - 1:24 scale
Malcolm Greig Posted July 21, 2020 #846 Posted July 21, 2020 Poor quality materials and poor instructions/plans often risk first timers remaining first timers. In the 1980's I brought the AL Endeavor that completely baffled me and it ended up in the rubbish bin. I've had another go in the modern era and I am now thoroughly enjoying this hobby that I originally thought was beyond me. regards Malcolm chris watton, coxswain, ErnieL and 3 others 6 Completed builds; Caldercraft Mars; Vanguard Alert, Amati Revenge On the shelf; Vanguard DOK & the Sphinx
glbarlow Posted July 21, 2020 #847 Posted July 21, 2020 I love frigates, I’m heavily on the 20-32 side. The bigger gun platforms don’t hold much charm for me. I can only rig so many cannons. I’m voting for Sphinx, one of your four choices, not an unlimited wish list. Ryland Craze, BenD, ErnieL and 2 others 5 Regards, Glenn Current Build: Royal Barge, Medway Long Boat Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose
Bill Morrison Posted July 21, 2020 #848 Posted July 21, 2020 I'm currently working on the defunct Constructo HMS Pandora (24) and have had a hell of a time trying to correct the bow. I would love to see a better kit of this historic ship! Bill chris watton and ErnieL 2
Thunder Posted July 21, 2020 #849 Posted July 21, 2020 I would say you have to consider what kits are on the market by other manufacturers. Going by this and taking into consideration the history of the top ship, both historic and in films / fiction, I would say the 38. A 44, however, is not covered by any one else. However, your kits are setting a new standard. If I had not started the Cruiser I would have sold for the Flirt Kit. I would probably consider selling the Pegasus that I have in stock for the Sphinx and my Diana kit if you were to build one of the frigates. I know these are old projects of yours but now you are doing this for yourself you are no longer tied by the company you work for regarding quality, you only have to consider cost. If I had to for go two kits to have one of your higher quality kits then I would be far happier. I wish you had revealed the Duchess a few weeks ago, I was 50 last week and would of asked my wife to give me a late present to get that beauty. MEDDO, chris watton, Ryland Craze and 1 other 4 Current Build(s): H.M.S Diana 1794 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale Completed Builds: H.M.S. Cruiser 1797 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale H.M. Naval Cutter Speedy 1828 - Model Shipwright 1:48 Royal Caroline 1749 - Panart 1:47 H.M. Brig Supply 1759 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Pickle 1778 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.Y. Chatham 1741 - Caldercraft 1:64 H.M.S. Resolution Cutter - Corel 1:50 H.M.S. Racehorse - Sergal 1:47 (Renamed H.M.S. Thunder 1740) first wooden kit build.
Morgan Posted July 21, 2020 #850 Posted July 21, 2020 Maybe the quality of materials is aligned to historical timeframe of the subject, for instance the Victory of Trafalgar is traditionally painted why would you plank with pear when you are covering it up, whereas the Victory of 1765 would look splendid if you used the Duchess colour scheme - I’m not advocating Victory it’s just one ship that changed of which we have many examples and can gauge how she looks in her different guises. For your proposed Frigates the Indefatigable with built up bulwarks would, in my book, look best in a painted format in keeping with her timeframe, whereas the other frigates in their earlier form lend themselves predominantly to natural wood. So perhaps anything pre 1800 go with the more expensive woods, anything after 1800 go with cheaper planking where it is to be painted. This is what you generally see in the NMM model collections. Gary chris watton, coxswain, Murphy and 1 other 4
Vane Posted July 22, 2020 #851 Posted July 22, 2020 I am very excited to see the progress and new models coming up. Once i have finilized some of my current builds (including the Speedy) I am looking for a new Vanguard ship to take on. In my view, when it comes to the next models, I would argue that it should simply be a business decision for getting Vanguard models to grow and not so much about individual opinions here. Design a model that fits and expand the line up you have. Also think about what kits your competitors already have on the market and do something unique. Finally, always keep in mind your brand. Stick with the certain style that you want Vanguards to be rather than just developing randomly projects that has nothing in common. My 50 Cent mtaylor, glbarlow, Murphy and 5 others 8 Current builds: HMS Victory (Corel 1:98), HMS Snake (Caldercraft 1:64), HMBV Granado (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Diana (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Speedy (Vanguard Models 1:64)
ASAT Posted July 22, 2020 #852 Posted July 22, 2020 13 hours ago, chris watton said: It will be one of these No Bristol in sight? Scrubbed or moved further to the right? Lou, In Pleasant View Harvey by ASAT- AL Scale 1:50 - Kitbash Fair American by ASAT - LSS Craftsman Plus https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23121-revenge-1577-by-asat-amati-164/
chris watton Posted July 22, 2020 Author #853 Posted July 22, 2020 Cheers again, very helpful posts. I shall probably go with a 20 gun and work up, as this make most sense. I have to be honest and say I have never bothered to see what other companies are doing, I have never cared one jot, as I have always preferred to do what I think is right/what I like, rather than reacting to what others are doing. Having said that, Initially, Atalanta was on the cards, as I bought the plans for that - but I now realise the everyone and their mother are now doing a Swan class, so I feel a 20 gun small frigate from the same period is a very good substitute. Out of all the kits I have designed in the past, there are only two I would very much like to revisit and give them the treatment/designs they so deserve, a brig and a small ship of the line, which I did two decades ago. Lou, I keep looking at my Bristol designs, and may carry on with them, but knowing what I know now, I need more slightly smaller kits before purchasing the large amount of materials needed for such a large kit. When I started Bristol, the plan was to use standard materials (basswood), and use my Italian sub contractor to laser cut the parts - but this has changed as I realised quickly that the standards/quality of cutting were not what I had envisaged. The upside to this is that it forced me to purchase my own laser machine, and a lot more freedom to design how I like without worrying about the costs of paying someone for the time, and wondering if all the parts I paid for will fit as I want them to. One more thing I would like to add, not a single part of my new kits are an 'afterthought', I try to give each and every part the attention they need, so that they fit with the 'whole' Rustyj, Ronald-V, BobG and 17 others 20 Vanguard Models on Facebook
AnobiumPunctatum Posted July 22, 2020 #854 Posted July 22, 2020 If you choose the HMS Sphynx of a ship from this class, it is perhaps a good idea to go in contact with Alxander. He made excellent drawings of this ship. mtaylor, dvm27 and chris watton 3 Regards Christian Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36 On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777 Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48 "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali
glbarlow Posted July 22, 2020 #855 Posted July 22, 2020 6 hours ago, chris watton said: 20 gun small frigate Dang it, now I have to buy another Vanguard model. 😂🤣 BenD, mtaylor, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Regards, Glenn Current Build: Royal Barge, Medway Long Boat Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose
chris watton Posted July 22, 2020 Author #856 Posted July 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, glbarlow said: Dang it, now I have to buy another Vanguard model. 😂🤣 Well, you'll get no complaint from me! glbarlow, mtaylor and Gord-Canada 3 Vanguard Models on Facebook
Landlubber Mike Posted July 23, 2020 #857 Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, chris watton said: Also for larger models, the new method of designing the gun port surrounds uses a lot of material, but I think, again, it is worth it, as it eliminates completely any ambiguity of having to mark out or, if it's a pre cut part, misaligning the ports. I guess my aim is to try and eliminate the guesswork involved in making the kits and make it as painless as I can. Some are expert and much better than me at building models, but there are many who do need an extra hand, and it is to these people I try and think about the most. The most experienced always go their own way anyway. I am always astonished at what some of you guys can do with the simplest of kits and make them your own. For me personally, the least guesswork in a kit the better. For example, I'm enjoying building the Euromodel La Renommee, but having to mark out the gunports and make sure they were aligned, proper sweep, same run on both sides of the hull, etc. ended up being many hours of extra work. Maybe I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and maybe this is not an issue for others, but it was a real drag on my overall positive experience with the model to the point that I was burned out by it and put it aside to work on other things. While I'm fine with doing some research on things like colors and potential bashes to add more detail to a kit, I'm there to build, and I really don't want to have to spend the time figuring out the basics. So, I think this is the right approach (at least for people like me), and I can tell you put in a lot of thought on other kits you've designed (I believe you did the Pegasus, but I could be wrong). egkb, mtaylor, VTHokiEE and 4 others 7 Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
chris watton Posted July 23, 2020 Author #858 Posted July 23, 2020 Cheers Mike. And yes, I did design Pegasus, along with all kits in the Victory Models range. Landlubber Mike, BobG, Kusawa2000 and 1 other 4 Vanguard Models on Facebook
Wahka_est Posted July 23, 2020 #859 Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, chris watton said: Cheers Mike. And yes, I did design Pegasus, along with all kits in the Victory Models range. Chris is there a list you could share all the kits you have designed. I know Victory line, Caldercraft Cruiser i think and others? Landlubber Mike and mtaylor 2
chris watton Posted July 23, 2020 Author #860 Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Wahka_est said: Chris is there a list you could share all the kits you have designed. I know Victory line, Caldercraft Cruiser i think and others? I sent you a PM. You see, I did design a lot for them, but according to them, I designed nothing, it was their son, I was just a 'Factory Operative' mtaylor and egkb 2 Vanguard Models on Facebook
WalrusGuy Posted July 23, 2020 #861 Posted July 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, chris watton said: I sent you a PM. You see, I did design a lot for them, but according to them, I designed nothing, it was their son, I was just a 'Factory Operative' Hi Chris, any possibility you could also send me a PM of the kits you designed? This would help me decide on future potential projects since I know they would have been designed very well. Thanks! mtaylor 1 Current: USF Confederacy - Model Shipways (Build Log) HMS Pickle - Caldercraft (Build Log) Complete: Virgina 1819 - Artesania Latina (Gallery) U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways (Build Log, Gallery) On the shelf: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways
glbarlow Posted July 23, 2020 #862 Posted July 23, 2020 39 minutes ago, chris watton said: it was their son, Which is why they have so many new designs since you left, as in none. Whatever happened to HMS Surprise for example. I liked Caldercraft,...until their factory operative left 😂🤣 rusty b, chris watton, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Regards, Glenn Current Build: Royal Barge, Medway Long Boat Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose
chris watton Posted July 23, 2020 Author #863 Posted July 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, glbarlow said: Which is why they have so many new designs since you left, as in none. Whatever happened to HMS Surprise for example. I liked Caldercraft,...until their factory operative left 😂🤣 Well, as far as I am concerned, that's now just history. I am very happy now, doing what I am doing without restriction. mtaylor, usedtosail, Ronald-V and 11 others 14 Vanguard Models on Facebook
Ryland Craze Posted July 23, 2020 #864 Posted July 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, chris watton said: I am very happy now, doing what I am doing without restriction. Good for you. I wish you much success and am glad you are sharing your kit developments with us. I am amazed at how fast you can turn out a new kit and the quality that you build into your designs. MEDDO, DelF, chris watton and 1 other 4 Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat
Vane Posted July 23, 2020 #865 Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, glbarlow said: Which is why they have so many new designs since you left, as in none. Whatever happened to HMS Surprise for example. I liked Caldercraft,...until their factory operative left 😂🤣 The whole Nelson line is very nice and my style of ships. However, Caldercraft has, as far as i know, not developed anything new for nearly 20 years. Their kits are now way outdated and in real need of being upgraded. But they seem not to care at all about that and live on old successess. Comparing the Caldercraft Diana kit with my Vanguard Speedy is like an old Volkswagen Beetle to a Lamborghini Avantor in design, kit details and instructions. So basically, I would rather wait for Chris to develop something new than order kits that dont cut it anymore. Murphy, DelF, chris watton and 6 others 9 Current builds: HMS Victory (Corel 1:98), HMS Snake (Caldercraft 1:64), HMBV Granado (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Diana (Caldercraft 1:64), HMS Speedy (Vanguard Models 1:64)
chris watton Posted July 23, 2020 Author #866 Posted July 23, 2020 Cheers guys. I only said something because I always get asked about my past designs, the Nelson's Navy period was not a happy time and, TBH, still upsets me when I think of all the time and effort I put into doing those kits, to bring on a new marketable range so quickly. Anyway, now you know, so let's look forward rather than back - I just wish I had the balls to do this years ago. Still, better late than never... Nunnehi (Don), ccoyle, gjdale and 20 others 23 Vanguard Models on Facebook
VTHokiEE Posted July 23, 2020 #867 Posted July 23, 2020 For no reason other than my own curiosity (and it maybe has been asked earlier in the thread and I apologize if so), about how long does it take to design a smaller vessel like your Fifie and Zulu? I have my fingers crossed that someday you’ll surprise us with an ancient vessel (there’s definitely demand in my household at least 😂). Canute, chris watton and mtaylor 3 Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG)
chris watton Posted July 23, 2020 Author #868 Posted July 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said: For no reason other than my own curiosity (and it maybe has been asked earlier in the thread and I apologize if so), about how long does it take to design a smaller vessel like your Fifie and Zulu? I have my fingers crossed that someday you’ll surprise us with an ancient vessel (there’s definitely demand in my household at least 😂). It is hard to work out the times involved, because I do this from home, so am always thinking about the designs and tweaking. Sometimes at 2 or 3 in the morning when I think of a solution to a problem that's been bugging me all day! I think perhaps one full week for the very small kits, with a lot more hours tweaking aspects of the initial designs. The more complex the design the longer it takes, but to the modeller, they wouldn't know as most of the hard parts are 'ironed out' before ever being kitted - although there's always something that slips through, no matter how much time I spend checking stuff... I would very much like to do an ancient vessel one day, I think perhaps one of Hatshepsut's vessels, complete with a scale figure of her would be pretty cool... JpR62, mtaylor, VTHokiEE and 5 others 8 Vanguard Models on Facebook
VTHokiEE Posted July 23, 2020 #869 Posted July 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, chris watton said: I think perhaps one full week for the very small kits, with a lot more hours tweaking aspects of the initial designs That’s incredibly impressive! 8 minutes ago, chris watton said: I would very much like to do an ancient vessel one day, I think perhaps one of Hatshepsut's vessels, complete with a scale figure of her would be pretty cool... That would be awesome! You can count me in for one 😉. I still roam eBay.it occasionally for the Roman Quinquireme from Hachette that you designed but no such luck. mtaylor, Edwardkenway and chris watton 3 Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG)
mtaylor Posted July 24, 2020 #870 Posted July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, chris watton said: Anyway, now you know, so let's look forward rather than back - I just wish I had the balls to do this years ago. Still, better late than never... That is the best philosophy ever. coxswain, DelF, chris watton and 2 others 5 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
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